[TEPaul]

"But come on, every profession needs its jargon, that’s what enables us to win arguments when even we don’t know what we’re talking about."

Marc:

I know you're just being humorous---nicely sardonic really about that. Of course every profession needs it jargon and I certainly do know those supers and agronomists who use it know precisely what they're talking about.

I want and hope you take this exactly how I intend it but my suspicion is they use that high fallutin sounding technical jargon more rather than less in the presence of people who know virtually nothing about the technicalities of agronomy or the nuances of it---people like club members and committee people (people like me) and such because basically it shuts them up! The last thing I feel any sensible superintendent really wants to do is have to give each and every committee person or club member present a rather full-fledged education in the technicalities, the nuances, or even the basics of applied agronomy.

So I think they use that jargon as much as they do in the presence of people like me because basically it really does shut them up and makes them more inclined to simply go with what the super wants to do anyway.

And you know what?---I don't blame a single super who does this!!  

[TEPaul]

Marc:

One of these days, though, I'm gonna learn what that jargon and that high fallutin sounding technical language really does mean and then I really am going to be a super pain in the ass who never shuts up!    

But in the meantime I'm totally certain the whole thing is nothing more than oxygen and BUGS!

[Marc Haring]

Spot on again Tom Paul, but I'll let you into a secret. I couldn't name you a soil organism if I tried. All that psudomonas and clostridium shite I was going on about. They're all food poisoning bugs, sorry organisms.

[TEPaul]

Marc, get off all this psudomanas and clostridiums stuff and get off GOLFCLUBATLAS.com and get out on the golf course and get to work---you've been lollygagging around far too long already---it's 7:09 in the morning for God's sake!

And I'm going back to bed---this is hard work!

[Marc Haring]

OK Tom Paul, I'm back on my mower.

[Steve Curry]

Dave,

"Steve does the monthly deep-tine aeration replace pulling the cores once or twice a year?"

For these greens yes!  And that makes the members very happy.  If we were trying to remove excessive thatch we would be core tining.

More later off to golf.

Steve

[Dave_Miller]

Dave,

 
For these greens yes!  And that makes the members very happy.  If we were trying to remove excessive thatch we would be core tining.

More later off to golf.

Steve

Steve:
Does that mean it may be very different at our place.  Also once we are able to remove the excessive thatch would the monthly deep tine be sufficient?
Thanks
Dave

[Don_Mahaffey]

Whenever I read about a supt. who doesn't hollow core aerify I cringe, not because I disagree with their agronomic methods, but because I know that someone somewhere will grab on to that info and think it means they don't have to hollow core either. One thing to remember when it comes to golf course management, every process is interdependent upon every other process. The fact that Steve doesn't need to hollow core is just one snap shot of his total management plan. To be in the same boat as him would mean greens construction, water quality and use, fertility, weather, grass type and many other factors were similar to what he's is doing and dealing with. Whenever someone wishes to adopt similar management practices as another course it's tough to just take bits and pieces. So, I caution anyone here in a position of power at their golf club to study all the factors that determine why they, and anyone else, aerifies the way they do before they consider any changes to their agronomic management plan

[Dave_Miller]

Whenever I read about a supt. who doesn't hollow core aerify I cringe, not because I disagree with their agronomic methods, but because I know that someone somewhere will grab on to that info and think it means they don't have to hollow core either. One thing to remember when it comes to golf course management, every process is interdependent upon every other process. The fact that Steve doesn't need to hollow core is just one snap shot of his total management plan. To be in the same boat as him would mean greens construction, water quality and use, fertility, weather, grass type and many other factors were similar to what he's is doing and dealing with. Whenever someone wishes to adopt similar management practices as another course it's tough to just take bits and pieces. So, I caution anyone here in a position of power at their golf club to study all the factors that determine why they, and anyone else, aerifies the way they do before they consider any changes to their agronomic management plan

Don:
Thanks.  That's good advice. We are looking for a solution to a problem and part of Steve's plan may or may not help us but we realize it has to be done in conjunction with a total maintenance plan or should I say "Maintenance Meld"
Thanks,
Dave

[Steve Curry]

Don,

Yes! Very important to point out!  BHCC greens are 80 year old push-up greens with lots of poa.  We have a substantial level of play and until 2 years ago the greens were core aerated 1-2 times a year probably for 20 years, with heavy topdressing added.  All of these factors and many others make BHCC unique and make my current practices viable.  The lack of core aeration goes very much in hand with the multiple other thatch limiting/reducing programs I have in place.

New greens need to be core aerated, some grasses have to be core aerated.  To Don's point don't take my advice as the cure for your club's ills.

Steve

[Pat Brockwell]

Don's post on maintenance meld is brilliant.  Just like a golf course there can be several ways to put the ball in the hole.  Some yield pars, some yield bogeys.  IMO balance is key in turf management.  Water, fertilizer, cultural practices and nature (bugs, weather) all need to be considered to create a balanced healthy system that can handle the stresses that need to be endured.  It's too easy to be trapped into thinking that there is one way to proceed or that if something is good, more of that something will be better (watch out with monthly deep tine arification).  If we could just adopt a program and implement it to be successful, supers would not be necessary.  The reality is that we need to pay attention, monitor, assess and adjust to keep in balance.  A remedial program carried on past correction can lead to a new set of problems.  Strive for balance and remember that balance is not a position but the ongoing movements and adjustments that are necessary to maintain equilibruim.  A note about bugs; they cannot be considered dependents for tax purposes.  

[Dave_Miller]

Don,

Yes! Very important to point out!  BHCC greens are 80 year old push-up greens with lots of poa.  We have a substantial level of play and until 2 years ago the greens were core aerated 1-2 times a year probably for 20 years, with heavy topdressing added.  All of these factors and many others make BHCC unique and make my current practices viable.  The lack of core aeration goes very much in hand with the multiple other thatch limiting/reducing programs I have in place.

New greens need to be core aerated, some grasses have to be core aerated.  To Don's point don't take my advice as the cure for your club's ills.

Steve

Steve:
With other thatch reducing practices does this mean that the older greens need core aeration less?  Not sure I follow.
Thanks
Dave

[Donnie Beck]

Bent produces much more organtic matter than poa. Therefore once a predominantly poa green has it thatch levels in check it will require less aerification than a solid bent green.

[Ed_Baker]

Just spoke to Dave as he was wandering around London, he wanted me convey his thanks for all the great information posted on this thread.

Steve Curry, when the hell are you coming out this way to play golf with us?

[Steve Curry]

Hey Ed,

Soon I hope, can't wait to see The River.  I am finding time this weekend to play in a three day two-ball, so things are therefore going well at home and at work.


Steve  

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