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THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2004, 12:43:03 PM »
Patrick:

Heck yes I can review the list of recent threads and say that most have to do with architecture.  My count is currently 22 out of 25 on the first page.  That of course gives THIS ONE the benefit of the doubt.  Hmmmmm... who started this one, by the way?

As for me, the second I think of a topic on architecture that hasn't already been covered and I think would interest people here, I will start a thread on it.  I just don't have that kind of creativity to come up with many of those - I guess it's due to my second-rate education.  Or perhaps it's because I don't want to bore people?   ;)

In any case, no hassles here.  I think all of our hearts are in the right place, even Tom MacWood, who seems to have a particular axe to grind with me personally.  We all want what's best for this site.  I don't expect us to agree just what that IS, though.  I guess it takes a Notre Dame education to make one that dogmatic.

 ;D

« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 12:48:19 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2004, 12:52:34 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

This thread is related to golf course architecture.

It seeks to redirect the focus of threads and posts back to golf course architecture, which is the stated purpose of this section of Ran's website.

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2004, 12:59:09 PM »
It sure is easy for a bunch of raters to slam anyone who can't gain access to any course they choose....maybe you should think back about before you had your card before you look down on a guy who would like to play someplace nice on a buisness trip too.....Asking about what courses are in a town are not the only veiled attempts at access around here.....sucking up to architects, panel members and those of status on the panel are just as transparent.   This is not a slam on raters....I have gained close to unlimited access myself due to their generosity....it is just a wake up call to the large majority of people on this site that are raters and know when they travel..or lets say to...Omaha or San Diego...that there are other Willy Lomans out there that like to play a new place now and then without having to sell Biff for the rights to play.

John:  I do continue to like your style.  BUT.. I think you give way too much credit to what a rater's card gets one.  As a holder of such, I can say this with absolute certainty:  I have played way more places through the generosity of gracious hosts, and in tournament play or through charity events, than I ever have through the rating process.  It's not even close.  

So I don't think this is about raters, nor should it be made to be.  I swear man, that card is not the magic panacea many believe it to be.

What it's about is courtesy and decorum, and I think you know this.  It's just not right to come on here and openly request access - it puts the potential hosts in a very bad position.  If such is to be given, it comes to you.  You can't and shouldn't force it.

So I of all people make no slam on those who become guests at private clubs.  Hell, they don't call me America's Guest because I stay at a lot of Holiday Inns.  It's just that these wonderful occurrences simply must be the result of an invitation, not a demand.  Oh, a certain incredibly gracious Monterey gent can attest that I've crossed the line there myself, but that's because we've come to be friends.  One either receives invites without asking, or has to be a darn good friend to do the asking first. That's simply how it must work.

So Tommy's concern is a good one - even though I take him to task for it a bit here.  It's not good when this gets too prevalent, so that hosts feel an awkward obligation to respond to every request, veiled or not... My disagreement with him is in that I don't think the situation here is nearly as bad as he does.  But if we have to err on a side, I'd say go with him and not me.




THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2004, 01:00:45 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

This thread is related to golf course architecture.

It seeks to redirect the focus of threads and posts back to golf course architecture, which is the stated purpose of this section of Ran's website.

Patrick:

As I say, I gave you the benefit of the doubt.  But you must admit it's a hell of a stretch.

I won't mention certain posts you've made in other threads.  I don't expect perfection from you.

 ;)

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2004, 01:24:08 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

I think the body of my threads and posts is HEAVILY weighted to the discussion of golf course architecture.

Can you make the same statement ? ;D

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2004, 01:32:30 PM »
Patrick:

I agree with your self-assessment.  You just remain imperfect.  But again, that's ok.  I do very much respect your knowledge.  I also respect and like your imperfections.

As for me, I don't think I want to make that statement.  I'd assess myself like this:

Most of my posts do have to do with architecture, but I am not averse to straying, and I have yet to piss Ran off.  I also believe that my posts are heavily weighted toward being light-hearted, fun and uplifting.

Can YOU make that last statement?

Not that you'd care to.

Again, to each his own.  Go Irish.

 ;D


Wayne_Freedman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2004, 02:09:05 PM »
When one spends more time analyzing a relationship than
living it, then it becomes dysfunctional.

There's plenty of room, here, for lateral depth.

We should be grateful that nobody mentions politics.

 


 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 02:09:51 PM by Wayne_Freedman »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2004, 02:37:49 PM »
We should be grateful that nobody mentions politics.

Spoken like a newer poster! :) Search the archives and you'll soon know everyone's leanings.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

P.S. I'm looking forward to David Wigler's writeup - he soon will be off the hook for his homework assignment, apparently. Mine is written, but I only recently started walking well enough to get out and take photos. I'll try to finish it soon, as I know everyone is looking to learn more about Pittsburgh's finest muni. :)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 02:40:16 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2004, 03:24:11 PM »
Golf Course Architecture
A free access board for the discussion of golf course architecture related matters. (note: non-architecture threads/posts are deleted).
Moderator: Ran Morrissett

Pat Mucci's point is well taken, however, in the above preamble the words "related matters" signify that there can be a thread, however slight, to the matter at hand.

Whether it be at the Ladies Garden Club or the Basque Language Club, varying topics will be discussed well away from the mission statement of the organization. As it is here.

I have mentioned this before. Some of the our discussions that are only peripheral to the architectural theme, are a good deal more stimulating than the ongoing worship of the most excruciating minutiae of the National Golf Links of America.

I would agree that any references to the Universities of Notre Dame, Michigan and Santa Clara should be  "utterly cryit doune and nocht useit."

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2004, 03:37:10 PM »
I would agree that any references to the Universities of Notre Dame, Michigan and Santa Clara should be  "utterly cryit doune and nocht useit."

Well said and points well taken, oh wise one.  I shall strive to avoid such in the future.  It just is such a part of me, it shall be difficult... the strain is already wearing on me... but I do understand this place could do without such references.

I just would propose a trade:  my NOT mentioning that south bay institution who's name cannot said the next 10 times the muse is upon me for your MENTION of the institute at which you matriculated once, formulating it somehow into the architecture discussion.  That would make for some darn interesting reading, I feel certain....

 ;D

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2004, 04:03:11 PM »
I don't like that trade. Not one bit.

The rest of us could stand a little restraint every now and then, but I truly enjoy the entertaining stories of Bob Huntley, Tom Paul, Pat Mucci and a few others, not to mention pretty much all of the architects. My life experiences are too boring to share (at least thus far), but theirs certainly aren't!

I keep breaking my own probation - JakaB must be laughing at my lack of will power. :)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 04:04:00 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2004, 04:03:31 PM »
Just coincidentally (?), I was reading this thread when a friend of mine sent me a link to www.jibjab.com/thisland.html.

Don't miss it.

Of course, once you've followed that link yourself, you'll see that this is the most off-topic post I've ever made, of many off-topic posts -- but this link is so not-to-be-missed that I would feel myself remiss if I didn't direct you, my cyberfriends, not to miss it.

And this seems just the thread for it!  
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2004, 04:18:40 PM »
George:

I think you miss the gist of my proposed trade.  I'm gonna shut the hell up about SCU, with the promise that Mr. Huntley DOES somehow weave a mention of his undergraduate and/or graduate institution into some post here.  You think YOU enjoy his stories?  Hell I live for them.  I also live for his vocabulary inserts as well.  I never should have challenged him by comparing him to my father there.

Dan Kelly:  jeez man as if I'm not screwing around too much as it is.  But yes, that is one of the greatest links I've ever had the pleasure of trying....

 ;D
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 04:20:30 PM by Tom Huckaby »

DMoriarty

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2004, 05:00:54 PM »
Here is what I dont get . . .

Ran makes it crystal clear that non-gca threads are not welcome, yet many of the regulars simply brush off Ran's guidelines, offering lame rationalizations whenever this topic comes up.

You don't seem to understand that the rationalizations and justifications are beside the point.  And the point is very simple is very simple-- It is outright rude to ignore Ran's request.  After all, we his are his guests.   Would you so readily dismiss your host's guidelines when a guest at his golf club?

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2004, 05:05:47 PM »
David -

Well put. The rationalization I've often heard is to the effect of "if Ran doesn't like it let him tell me." Its the same facile justification used by petty criminals, i.e. its only wrong if I get caught.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 05:08:01 PM by SPDB »

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2004, 05:07:09 PM »
Hi David:

Long time no hear.  Good to have you on here again.

In answer to your post, I'd just say personally, I really don't think I am brushing off Ran's guidelines, nor am I ignoring his request.  He's told me so himself.  But if one does that, then heck yes, it is rude.  Well said.

But we have wasted way too much time on this quadra-annual chicken little fest already.  Go check out either of the threads on strategy - you'll likely find much to take me to task on there, and it is all about architecture (I think).

TH

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2004, 05:09:51 PM »
SPDB:

Well, some might have said that, but not me.  Mine is a more positive take.  Ran himself told me he has no problem with how I post here.  I agree that the "he can tell me if I'm wrong" approach puts too much onus on Ran - who does after all have a life - and is dishonorable.

What I take issue with is anyone stating with absolute certainty what anyone should do here, besides Ran himself.  Yes, it is his site.  It's not mine.  But neither is it yours or anyone else's.

Live and let live, gentlemen.

TH
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 05:23:15 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2004, 05:17:13 PM »
Tom,
   I do recall a weak attempt by you at a putt for a half vs Baxter and Ran at Black Mesa when Ran notified you before your stroke that he could make you disappear from GCA.  After your miss, I believe Ran said "Tom Huckaby, member in good standing".  You have witnesses! ;)

Cheers,
Brad
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 05:50:14 PM by Brad Swanson »

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2004, 05:22:29 PM »
Tom,
   I do recall a weak attemt by you at a putt for a half vs Baxter and Ran at Black Mesa when Ran notified you before your stroke that he could make you disappear from GCA.  After your miss, I believe Ran said "Tom Huckaby, member in good standing".  You have witnesses! ;)

Cheers,
Brad

Ah yes, 'tis true... see, I know where my bread is buttered.  But sorry about the miss, pards.  You did have to have a strong back that glorious day.

 ;D

DMoriarty

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2004, 05:31:27 PM »
One of the reasons I havent been around is because it has become very difficult to find an interesting discussion.   You see, I dont give a damn which club has the finest urinals, maintenance shed, cookies, etc.  Nor do I give a damn about any of the other threads designed to provide posters a place to brag about which courses they have bagged (begged?). Nor do I give a damn which clubs you hit, which clubs you own, what spikes you wear, or how often you change them.  If I wanted to talk about your alma mater or your favorite team, I'll start attending the pep rallys.

As it is now, most potentially decent threads drop off the front page, and idiotic threads go on and on.  Very few posters, it seems, have that much to say about gca.  

There are plenty of interesting gca topics to discuss in depth, but many seem plenty satisfied with the superficial and off-topic.

And Tom, you are kidding yourself if you really dont think that you are offering justification for brushing off Ran. If Ran wanted to open this website up to off-topic drivel, he'd change the introductory guidelines.  Certainly we should be mature enough to follow his requests rather than expecting him to waste his time slapping our hands for bad behavior.  

It isnt

Andy Levett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2004, 05:32:58 PM »
Dan Kelly,
Thanks for the link.

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2004, 05:37:05 PM »
Dave:

Did you mean for more on that?  Heck, I agree with most of what you say.  I too could live without too many threads devoted to things having nothing to do with golf, let alone GCA.  My take is more toward posts within threads that diverge... those seem harmless to me.  Hell, even Mucci does them from time to time, and they are enjoyable.  It hurts no one.

As for off-topic threads, well... they are marked as such nearly all the time, so pretty easy to skip.

I'm sure I do look at this board differently than you and many others here.  I really do think if it were 100% architecture and dogmatically limited to such, I'd get bored pretty quickly.  I'm into GOLF far more than GCA.  

Well, to each his own anyway.  You and others here judge me as you will.  I certainly can't change your opinions.  In the meantime, I will stick with what Ran himself has told me, both in person and in email/IM exchanges.  Once again, I am NOT waiting for him to slap my hand.  I am abiding with what he has told me to my face, and in writing.  I can't see how that is wrong.

Cheers.  Hope to read you here more.  I do enjoy your take on things.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 05:40:33 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2004, 06:15:52 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

If I wanted a stand up comedian I'd go to another web site.

My interest is golf course architecture, although I do have fun on and off the golf course.

THuckaby2

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2004, 06:20:44 PM »
I have absolutely no doubt about that, Patrick.

And I'd pay good money to see you do standup.

But come on, would you REALLY want every single post, 100% of every thread, to be pure discussions of architecture, with absolutely no humor?  Obviously not - your banter with TEP betrays you, my friend.

Oh well.  You only have me to kick around for an hour or two more, then I'm gone for 9 days.  Enjoy the serious discussion in my absence!

TH

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Architectural deimse -Tommy Naccarato is right
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2004, 06:41:24 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

On more then a few occassions I've used levity to joust with my friend TEPaul, and a few others.

But, I'm not talking about, nor do I have a problem with, an occassional diversion from golf course architecture, I'm talking about a general and pervasive trend away from golf course architecture, a trend that I don't think is in the site's best interest.

But, that's just my opinion, and I voiced it.