What do you think of this hole?

[Tony_Chapman]

This hole is coming soon to a My Home Course, but I wanted to see what you guys think -- just from the picture.

This is the 17th at York CC in York, NE (Huck's favorite course  ). It is 272 yards from the tips. The first pic is from the tee box, the second from just at the edge of the first landing area.

It's about 135 yards to the center of the first landing area. 210 to the tree in the fairway (the island, as the locals call it) and about a 255 yard carry to the green over the water.

You can do many things on the hole. My scores have ranged from 2 - 11 on the hole.  

And, not to jack the an earlier thread, but our back nine was one of Jim Engh's first solo projects with the help of Landscapes Unlimited I believe.

Thanks, in advance.

[Michael Dugger]

It looks like a neat little hole, albeit a little manicured for my tastes.

Looks like the play is a couple of 8-irons, at least for my puny little game.

The more short interesting par fours the better, IMHO.

[Jim Franklin]

Bombs away! I would hit 3-wood most of the time. I love short par 4s that penalize the big hitter that sprays it, but gives the big hitter a chance to make an ace.

[George Pazin]

The hole looks fun enough - can't say I like that tree, though.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Are those rocks front right of the green?

[Tony_Chapman]

Kevin - Unfortunately, yes. My dad and I were talking about that yesterday. We had some problems with the bank of the creek and the NRD said it had to get repaired. That was there way of doing it.  Good or bad I am not sure (I would lean toward bad), but I have see shots go on the green, back to the island, in the creek and over to the adjacent fairway (on the right) after hitting the rocks.

[JNC Lyon]

It looks like a fun hole. It provides several options of clubs to hit off the tee, as well as requiring some guts. How far is it to carry the first crossing of the creek? If the other holes on this course are as good, why isn't it mentioned more?

[Mike Hendren]

"Some novel ideas have been tried and found wanting."
The Golf Course - Page 147

The hole is reminescent of the drawing on page 147 of the referenced book.  Still looks like a lot of fun, however.  Frankly, it is a better hole than I am golfer  I like it.

Mike

[A_Clay_Man]

Tony- Just so noone confuses this discussion group with a love fest ...

The cart path, water and tree are big issues, for me. I know the rocks are, for our well travelled Mayor.

What's long? And how soft are the greens on any typical day?

If this is one, of two holes on the course, that dicate this much shot testing, I'd say it's o.k. Otherwise, if there's more, it's the epitome of target golf, more fitting a desert.

A great way to test the better players driving accuracy, not!

How was that? Not to fluffy or sugar coated was it?

Discuss

[SPDB]

Tony -
I mean no disrespect to your home course when I say I don't get it.

The play is either a bombed 3W or driver or a PW - 6I?

Assuming you choose to lay up, is there any advantage to challenging the tree? I'm afraid that the most sound play on the layup side is PW/PW(or SW). That doesn't sound right.

[Brian Noser]

255 to the center of the green how. that means it is about a 230 carry to that front bunker. for the longer player that may be a 2 iron or 5 wood to get it in there. which to me does not make it long enough. It looks like a fun hole though. I would not complain about it on my home course if it was the only one of that nature.

[James Edwards]

Interesting pin position back right, dont you think?

I think they should cut the trees back on the left which will make the shot alot more intimidating especially if there is more water staring at you.

I think they just have to stop clutering the hole too with the cart path and the fencing along its edge!

[rgkeller]

If the tree were replaced by a green without bunkers backing up to the water behind, this would be a very nice par three.

[TEPaul]

Interesting hole--certainly a lot to think about on the tee which is good. I wish this question had been asked before the planting or placement of that tree. Ideally, I'd start by placing that tree at least 10-15 paces to the right and maybe ten paces farther back. The way the tree is almost centered in that second fairway seems to make that option a little fluky and the functional effective landing area on that fairway pretty small on the left side of it.

On second thought, although it is a pretty tree I don't think the hole would suffer, probably be even better if the tree just wasn't there. There's enough to think about on this hole and that tree may be one element too much!

[Tony_Chapman]

Guys - Thanks for all the comments. I was expecting to see all sides of the spectrum on this and you guys didn't disappoint. I will try to answer some specific questions that you guys had.

Adam - First, what's long? Well, its mostly rough and it slopes pretty decently downhill and this green breaks pretty well, from back to front and left to right towards the creek. You could actually hit in the hazard over the green if you are not careful. I am actually finding this green harder to hit for big hitters, because their drivers go TOO FAR now.

Second, the greens. I would say they are medium firm. I driver or 3-wood hit high enough is going to hold the green if you land in the middle. Anything hit too far past middle will probably go over the green.

SPDB - You are correct, most players use as little as wedge to layup then another wedge to the hole.

As far as challenging the tree on the "island", it is a must. If you hit the ball anywhere at the tree or to the right of it, you will probably have to hit a low punch to the green.

Brian Noser - It's 255 to carry the creek, not to the middle of the green. It about 270 to the middle of the green.

A little more history on the hole. The tree was not planted there, it was there when we were building the hole. The waste bunker you see in the second picture was added about four years after we opened the back nine. It comes into play on the parallel hole as well (#13 - a par-5). It would get more use, if the tree weren't in the fairway.

The only thing I have with the hole is the tree. It does take the second area out of the play a ton off the tee. What I like about the lay up shot is that it seems that is the safest shot off the tee, but it brings the highest numbers into play because you still have "execute" the second short shot as well. Hit driver in the water and you drop, chip and make no worse that 5 normally.

Thanks for all the comments, I don't care if you like the hole or not. I used to hate it, but I have learned to appreciate a little more thanks to the forum.

[RJ_Daley]

It looks to me like the archie had a difficult little corner of the property to work with, so he tried to make lemonade out of the lemon he was handed.  So, he came up with this little quirkster.  Adam is right, I hate the rocks and the placing of the cart path may be mistaken.  But, if the bank needs stabilization and rip-rap rocks are the only way to do that, then so be it.  I'm not sure if the cart path could work down the right behind the tree, and between the tree and far right bunker.  

As Tony describes, one might initially hate the hole, and sort of grow to enjoy it for its quirkiness over time.  His thoughts that you eventially come to say, 'go for it' - the worse you generally make after your drop of 3 when you miss and go in the drink is a chip and two putts for bogey, still possible to one putt par VS an actually more problematic second shot from the lay up position... sounds fine to me.

[Steve_Lemmon]

How about this?   Lose the tree and put a challenging smallish bunker in its place, maybe with a little grass grown on the face.  If you land in it, you have a little more of a task, but are not stymied like with the tree.  

[James Edwards]

My 2nd go at this...

What about using the area in front of the rope as the tee and make it a 230? yard par 3?

[Jay Carstens]

Tony-
What's that under the big tree down the middle?

[Tony_Chapman]

My 2nd go at this...

What about using the area in front of the rope as the tee and make it a 230? yard par 3?

James - My photo is a bit off. The area in front of the rope would be a 175 yard par-3. Which, would be a great hole - no question. Problem is, at this point in the round (the 17th) you have already played 6 (!) par-3's. We are a par-70 with four par-5s as well.

Steve - A fairly decent idea. The tree actually sits in a well about 4 feet deep, so there may not be much work that would need to be done.

Just a little bit about the rope and such as well. You truly have to understand the clientel - if that's a good word - we deal with at YCC. A good portion of our members are farmers, buy there clubs at Wal-Mart and play in cart once a week. If we didn't have it, the area would look like garbage. When we have an outing, its not a bunch of banker-and-insurance-salesman-3-handicap-type-guys. It is the Pioneer Seed Corn dealer once-a-year-golf outing.

Once when working in the pro shop, I sold five pair of shoes prior to the outing, because the guys came with cowboy boots on!!!!

[Steve_Lemmon]

Even easier - how about a grass bunker in place of the tree?

[Mike Hendren]

Upon further reflection, this is an absolutely aweful golf hole.  I still like it, though.

Mike

[Tony_Chapman]

Upon further reflection, this is an absolutely aweful golf hole.  I still like it, though.

Mike

C'mon Mike - "Absolutely awful." I have played this hole many times and I would just describe it as "terrible."  

Gang - Would it be fun to do this more often. Kind of like Scott's AOTD's. Someone can post there hole for the day and we just go at it about the merits for awhile. I have like this little thread.

[Mike Hendren]

Tony,

You are a good sport

I too like this type thread, notwithstanding what photographs don't tell us or otherwise misrepresent.  

As for the subject hole, I assume that is a bunker right of the tree that separates the oncoming fairway.  I say eliminate that bunker and blend the fairways together to give the option to paly away from trouble by going longer and right off the tee with the result being a dicey pitch to the green, depending on pin location.

Mike

[danielfaleman]

Actually, it is a good golf hole; if for no other reason that an option of play exists, and, that the option exists for each the big-hitter and the short-hitter. If the hole was 295 yards it would even be better. I like the idea of it...