[T_MacWood]

The team of Hawtree & Taylor was fairly prominent in their day, however, rarely are their designs brought up when the most interesting courses in the UK and Europe are discussed. Why is that?

Were they not top shelf to start or is it a case of their work not aging well? How good is Bastad in Sweden?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom, A very good point, and even more reason for me to finally pick-up Aspects of Golf Architecture and give it a read. Especially after what I paid for it! (Like $80.00)  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I suppose the main reason they are rarely mentioned is that there is only one high-profile Hawtree course, Royal Birkdale.  An awful lot of their work has been on fairly minor, limited-budget courses.  They didn't get involved in any major projects overseas, as opposed to Mackenzie and Colt/Allison.  Even Simpson probably had a bigger reputation in continental Europe.  

In the same breath one could mention Ted Ray, Sandy Herd and Harry Vardon, none of them prolific but more than competent, I think.  And I wonder what is the reputation of James Braid outside the British Isles?  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

On maturer reflection, I suppose Birkdale has been quite significantly altered through the years and hardly the work of the original team any more.

[Brian Phillips]

Mark,

Yes Royal Birkdale has been altered over the years but as far as I know it has always been kept in the family.  The Hawtrees did the last changes before the last Open if I am not mistaken.

Brian

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Brian,

Quite right - Martin Hawtree made the most recent alterations.

[Paul_Turner]

From the old magazines it looked like H&T would sometimes use bunkers very heavily:  see Ifield and Grims Dyke.  

John of Gaunt is a decent course.  But not special.  I played there several times as a junior and I remember one epic hole to a green sited above an old castle moat.  Also a very tough par 3 across a valley (about the 11th?).

I need to go through C&W but I suspect all the H&T courses I've played were too long ago, to remember the details.

They didn't appear to get the plum jobs that Colt and Co, Fowler and Simpson, Aber, Mackenzie did.

[T_MacWood]

Based upon the buzz he created at Royal Mid Surrey, I would have thought there'd be great demand for Taylor the golf architect.  Then again the mountainous humps and hollows created at Mid Surrey became more or less a short-lived fad, illustrated by the fact Taylor redesigned the course a few years later. My impression is that Taylor was a very bright man and generally well respected.

I don't know if Hawtree & Taylor did or didn't get any prime projects, my impression is they were very active and did get a few fairly big jobs: Birkdale as mentioned before, Addington Palace got a lot of publicity, Richmond Park too and Bastad for the Nobel family (I believe) looked to be very interesting. From what I can tell H&T also had significant advertising budget.

Aesthetically they had a distinctive and bold style, in aparticular their bunering. Their bunkering style was extravagant even by the standards of the day. For example early photos of Birkdale show bunkers much more irregular than what is seen there today. Its hard to get a handle on their work from a historical perspective, mostly because very little was written about it, maybe they just weren't that good....especially compared to their contemporaries.

As far the reputation of Braid outside the British Isle, I think it is very good. IMO he gets credit for a number of courses that he redesigned or altered, in most cases full credit. How much he did on some of these courses is unclear to me. He was a fine artist and often rendered beautiful maps of the courses he altered. I reckon these find there way to a prominent place within the club, perhaps on a fireplace mantle. In some case he might have only added a dozen, or so, buners, but with his plan hanging proudly on the wall one could easily conclude the course is entirely his.

IMO to judge him fairly you would have to be familar with his solo work, unfortunately I have no experience with any of it. I put a lot of stock in the architectural opinions of Hutchinson and Darwin. Hutchinson allowed Braid to present his architectural theories in his weekly column (as he did with most of the architects of the day) and he warned that Braid's  ideas were too formulaic.

Darwin did not appear to be a big fan of his architecture either (even though he wrote his biography, his architecture having no bearing on the greatness of the man). For example in his chapter on golf design in the book 'Golf Between Two Wars' Darwin only mentions his name in passing when commenting upon the work of CK Hutchison at Turnberry and Gleneagles. When discussing Gleneagles Darwin consistantly emphasized Hutchison's contribution (as did MacKenzie in his last book).

[Paul_Turner]

Apparently Braid never turned down a job;  accrding to Ken Macpherson the Walton Heath pro.  He wins the prize for quirkiest/wildest designs:  Pennard, Perranporth, Brora and St Enodoc.

Guildford looks to be a fine Hawtree/Taylor design. I'm pretty convinced that H&T didn't get the prime jobs,  some good sites but nowhere near as much quality as the other big name architects.  Unless there are some real sleepers out there that Mark and I haven't found.

Interesting that Martin Hawtree used his grandfather's name as a route into the Lahinch redo.  When in fact, Mackenzie didn't have a high regard for the work of H&T.  He's pretty specific about this.

[T_MacWood]

Braid enherited older courses at St.Enodoc, Pennard and Brora--what exactly he retained and what he added is not entirely clear to me. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a golf course at Perranporth prior to 1927.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Golfer's Handbook gives date of foundation of Perranporth as 1927.  

The St Enodoc club brochure quotes extensively from E.A.R. Burden who was Secretary from 1939-52.  He mentions the original 27 holes, 18 out and 9 home and the purchase mof the land (in 1900) on which the present 13th and 14th stand. 'In 1907,....James Braid laid out a full 18 holes course, which was altered in part about 1922, notably by the construction of the present short 8th and a diversion of the original 11th, 12 th and 13th....Braid paid a further visit and constructed the existing 17th and 18th holes necessitated by the re-siting of the Club House.'  An anonymous writer then adds:  'Since the above was written....'The nine-hole course re-opened in 1967, using some of the holes originally designed by James Braid in 1928....'

Aldeburgh was first laid out in 1884 and Horace Hutchinson wrote about it most enthusiastically in 'British Golf Links'.  But the course was 'reorganised' by JH Taylor and Willie Park in 1907 and re-opened in 1908 and, to quote the brochure, is 'much as we know it today'.  There is plentiful deep and penal bunkering (111 bunkers today) and on each occasion I have played there I have been reminded of the other top East Anglian courses, Hunstanton and Royal West Norfolk and even of Royal County Down.  I think it can be a very unforgiving course and the fact that there are no par 5s yet 9 par 4s in excess of 400 yards to a total course length of 6330 yards and par of 68 would, I suspect, make even many of our very low handicappers struggle to match their handicap here.  It's not on the usual golfing tourist trail, but it could be combined with Woodbridge, Ipswich and Thorpeness (heathland), Great Yarmouth (links) and Royal Worlington (breckland) to make a memorable visit.

I agree with Paul about John O'Gaunt, it's a peculiar course.  There are now two courses, the newer one designed by the members, I think.  In some ways I prefer it!  The hole you are referring to, Paul, is the 17th, an otherwise unmemorable 484-yard par 5 played along level ground through an evenue of trees until the excitement of pitching onto a mound which was once an ancient fortification surrounded by a (now dry) moat.  For the most part the ground is level and this is just like any routine parkland course.  The exceptions are 175-yard 4th with a very undulating green (clearly man-made); 446-yard 5th, a left-hand dog-leg with trees in the angle, left and OOB hedge right; 6th, 472-yard monster par 4 with trees tight in on both sides at 266 yards where the fairway bends right; 7th is only 327 yards but the green is prettily sited on a mound surrounded by trees; 13th, a wicked 447-yard par 4 with drive over a diagonal stream (carry 225 yards if you aim right - away from trees on left), stream curving in tight on right on approach to green, which is only 29 yards deep.  I'd much rather play Gog Magog in that part of the world.

[T_MacWood]

Mark
In January 1908 Golf Illustrated reported Braid was to visit St.Enodoch to make "improvements". One of the high points of the club's early history was a challenge match between JH Taylor and Braid in 1901--played over an eighteen hole course.

Aldeburgh ran into some difficulty with their land, from what I understand they lost about a third of their property which neccessitated a redesign. They approached Taylor, who asked Park to help him. The new course, considerably longer than the course it replaced, was considered at the time a Park design (Colt and Alison created three new holes in the 20's). Park helped to intitiate a number of amateurs and professionals into golf design--Taylor, Jack White at West Hill, Abercromby at Worplesdon and Coombe Hill.

In Braid's biography there is a fairly comprehensive list of his designs (I believe complied by his partner Stutt), and St.Enodoch is not included (Pennard, Perranporth, and Brora aren't on the list either for whatever reason).

[BCrosby]

J.H. Taylor has fascinated me for a while. The snippets of his writings that I have stumbled across are intelligent and incisive, with a little edge to them. (Much more interesting than the other members of the Triumverate.) He was instrumental in organizing the British PGA and continued active in the organization until his death in the mid-'60's, I believe.

I have only the vaguest knowledge of his architectural work.

Can anyone recomment books by or about him?

Bob

[Mike Hendren]

A fabulous thread, true to the spirit of GCA.  Keep it up boys!

Mike

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Mike,

Glad you are enjoying it - so often I learn so much about British courses from correspondents living thousands of miles away!  It's humbling.

[NAF]

Tom,

The original St. Enodoc course was done by some of the original members and done prior to Braid coming there. I believe it was only a 9 holer.  When Braid came, he changed the course that was there (the old routing map and the current one bear hardly any similarities) and built into the northwestern quantrant of the terrain around the old church in making a new 18 holes.  He was summoned several times to the course to make alterations most notably in 1935 when the new repositioned clubhouse make the opening hole the new 18th.  The former 18th was abandoned (a really cool hole where the green was sheltered in an enomrous ampitheather and the current par 3 17th was substituted (and it is quite a hole too!).

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