[Patrick_Mucci]

On another thread, Alex commented on how boring Hidden Creek was for the first time player.  He also indicated that the golf course was fun and strategic for the members who benefited from repeated play.

Previous to this past thursday, I had only played Hidden Creek once, as a guest.

I found it anything but boring the first time I played it, and was so excited about playing it that I wanted to go directly to the first tee from the 18th green.  
Only darkness prevented that walk.

As I played from the 1st tee this past thursday afternoon I thought of my upcoming journey around the golf course in the context of Alex's comments.

The first problem I had was that I remembered every hole, before I got to the first tee.

After playing the 1st hole for only the second time, I thought about it and how it could be deemed boring.

I think the answer lies in the perceived purpose of the hole, and the ability to perceive subtle features.

There are no Distinguishing features to greet the golfers eye on the 1st tee, just a broad, generous fairway that offers the golfer wide margins of error as they begin their journey.

Likewise, the approach shot offers no Distinguishing features, just a green that emerges from the fairway.  Again, generous margins of error are offered to the golfer as well as various methods of approach.

To a degree, nothing Extraordinary confronts the golfer on the 1st hole, just a seemingly benign opening hole that eases the golfer into the golf course.

But, that all changes on the 2nd tee where multiple features and signals greet the golfers eye, making the golf course anything but boring.  That process repeats itself on each of the remaining 16 holes.

A review of Ran's write up and accompanying photos, which appear in the club's website, www.hiddencreekclub.com, will show a golf course replete with memorable features, a golf course that is far from boring to the first time visitor.

One has to wonder if Alex's focus was on the surroundings, the pine trees, rather then the golf course.

The holes are cut through generous corridors of pine trees,
so I can see how someone viewing the non-playing areas/corridors and not the holes and features within them could make the mistake of labeling the golf course as having a monotonous feature, pine trees.  But, competent eyes that focus on the golf course and features within it, would be hard pressed to find that golf course boring, it's anything but.

I had three guests with me, a 10 handicap, a 12 handicap and an 18 handicap, and all of them were universal in their praise of the golf course.

They loved the extraordinary contouring and size of the putting surfaces.

They loved the ability to play aerial and ground shots on almost every hole.

They loved the diversity and the isolation that each hole offered.

At the end of the round I asked them, as first time players, if they found the golf course boring.  They stated that they found the golf course exciting and that they wanted to play another 9 holes despite the fact that we were meeting other people for dinner at a set hour.  After a phone call to the restaurant and the other party, we went straight to the 1st tee.

Other then a misunderstanding with respect to the 1st hole,
I don't see how anyone could label the golf course as boring to the first time player.
But, that's just my opinion.

Perhaps, in the Fall, you'll get to render yours.

[TEPaul]

"Likewise, the approach shot offers no Distinguishing features, just a green that emerges from the fairway.  Again, generous margins of error are offered to the golfer as well as various methods of approach."

Pat:

I remember when they'd only rough shaped that 1st green they had a sort of front section of it that was just outlined  by a footdrag that'd been wiped out and another footdrag started farther in. I thought that was too bad as that initial front section probably would've made the golfer visually think the green's center was closer than it really was. It'd would've had some of the same visual deception that way as Merion's #6!  

[Bill Gayne]

Pat and Tom,

Let me preface this post with that I've never seen Hidden Creek and it is based on the comments that have been posted by others.

The comments being posted in support and detraction of Hidden Creek are very similar in nature to the comments regarding Pinehurst #2. In some cases it seems as if the posters cut and pasted and inserted Pinehurst and NC and vice versa. I think you could take Pat's first post on this thread and substitute in Pinehurst and he's captured 90% of what's on the Pinehurst thread.

So to answer the other question that others have raised: How would Pinehurst #2 be received if it was built today? The answer is probably that it would be received the same as Hidden Creek has been over the last couple of years. As a very good golf course built by an outstanding designer.

I believe that both of you have seen each golf course, is Hidden Creek a modern day #2?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill Gayne,

At the present time I can't answer the HC question in the PH#2 context.

PH # 2 has greater elevation changes, HC is on a relatively flat Pineland tract with some interesting but not dramatic elevation changes.

When I played it for the first time last year, I found it anything but boring, I found it rather exciting, fun and challenging, so much so that after playing just one round on the golf course, I decided to join it.  I can't think of a better endorsement.

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat:

     Unfortunately, I can't remember a course as well as you and I don't think I am unique.  What is important is the impression you come away with concerning how the course played and was it enjoyable.  Was it a course which you would like to play over and over and each time enjoy it as much as you did the first time; it's almost like the ideal woman.  

     I played Hidden Creek once and it was a wonderful experience and what I came away with was a memory of the wonderful green complexes.  The options you had for playing the hole with respect to how you would play your approach were many and varied; this is what makes a course fun.  It also requires you to use those different shots based upon pin placements with a back pin requiring a much different shot than a front pin.  The chipping areas around some of the greens were really interesting and a challenge to be imaginative enough to come up with a shot to play.  To me it did not have the visual strength of Galloway but it was no less interesting or challenging.  

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