[Marc Haring]

After ten years this bunker is starting to get a little rough around the edges.

What are my options?

a)   Do I rip out all that fairy ring and sand infested turf around the edges and replace with lush rye grass, remove the sand and fill that sucker up with 100 ton of crushed marble?

b)   Get my least skilled Guy to roughly hack away at the edges in an effort to tidy things up a bit especially where it’s starting to head downhill.

c)   Celebrate the fact that I’m starting to get a bit of character to the place and leave well alone.

d)   Put sugar in the fuel tank of the flymow and instruct my Guys never to go anywhere near the edges with any sort of mower and add a bit more cheap sand to try and push for that overflowing neglected look.



Here’s one that I’ve been working on. It’s getting more complaints than any aspect of the course right now. Is that a good thing?

 

[TEPaul]

Marc Haring:

This is a terrific thread---just the kind of "real life" maintenance and architectural subject we need much more of on here to keep contributors in the real world instead of idealizing aspects of this general subject.

Personally, I'd like to see bunker and hazard areas maintained more rugged and demanding of good and clever recovery shots. This would include sand areas that are not so immaculately prepared and maintained and "surrounds" that are the same.

However, I do recognize that today this very well be a battle that's been lost and perhaps never to be engaged again. It's unfortunate that the expectation amongst golfers generally has changed so much in this regard and in this area.

We say on this website that bunker areas are a place some price should be paid for getting into---that if it isn't these important (to golf architecture) areas lose their usefulness and meaning to be able to create meaningful strategies.

I like to separate discussions on bunkering into two distinct areas---the sand areas and the bunker surrounds.

Personally, I'd like to see more courses today that require golfers ONLY to maintain the playablitly of sand areas during their own play. Certainly this would not take the place of maintenance maintaining sand areas in a general sense but not as a daily prepared surface.

As to the surrounds, I think they should basically match the rest of the rough areas in look and play so as not to look and be completely out of place with them.

I'd like to see you let those bunker edges on your course get a little "grassier", at least, and let the grass grow some on the out-going side as you have in the second photo.

But I do recognize that can bring with it criticism from members and golfers and that's unfortunate. You're best policy is to just try to get those in the club responsible for the course (the green committee) to bring the memberhip around to accepting a less immaculate and highly maintained and prepared look and playbablity.

It's not easy, of course, but a number of clubs have managed to do it. If you want to know who they are and how they did it, this site is the place to come. We can put you in touch with them if it'll help.

[TEPaul]

Marc:

Furthermore, in my opinion, bunkers and how they play and what they demand of any golfer, can and should be broken down into two distinct categories;

1. Their architecture
2. The playable maintenance of their surfaces (both sand and surrounds).

A few clubs recently have transitioned from one extreme to the other this way resulting in perhaps the same overall net effect on playability.

Probably the best example is Merion East. Pre-1999 and pre-their recent bunker project the sand areas of the bunkers of Merion were basically hard panned and very difficult to play out of--particularly for less than accomplished golfers.

Their architecture, on the other hand was not as difficult to recover from as it is today--simply because their previous bunkers were not as deep and steep as they are today.

Now the sand areas have been fixed, and are a far more prepared and consistent surface to play from. However, the redone architecture of them has made many of them deeper and steeper and that makes them more difficult. And of course the unusually high and rugged grass that surrounds them has made that area far more meaningful and difficult to play from.

So, it's an interesting transition from one extreme to another. The net effect is an interesting one too.

A few recent restorations on Raynor courses such as Mountain Lake and Fox Chapel have sand and surround areas that are well maintained and not that hard to play off of--in a sand and grass sense only. However, the restored and even enhanced nature of their architecture---eg some really steep and vertical architectural surrounds has very much made them far more iffy and occasionally far more demanding to recover from!

That bunker in your first photo looks to be the type that is of no real consequence to a good player in either its architecture or the sand area and grass surround area. To me that bunker has basically lost its inherent function---eg to create meaningful strategy as a place to avoid!

 

[Marc Haring]

TEP. You’re dead right about the strategic merits of that bunker, no use whatsoever. It is the only bunker on a short par 4 and guards the left side of the green yet the bail out area from the tee is down the right. Hopeless!

This is the hole from the tee, very pretty but not exactly intellectually challenging.






So, how about I relocate the tee up on the high ground to the left, round about here?






 I was thinking about doing that for health and safety reasons anyway. I’d have to remove that hedge but you’d end up with a view of what will be an offset fairway something like this.



Maybe a couple of punishing bunkers at the far side of the fairway protecting the open side of the green and voila, we could end up with a half decent hole. What do you reckon?    

[TEPaul]

Marc:

Interesting.

Of course I've never seen the hole but those photos do give some idea. And you said it was a short par 4.

In that case (as opposed to a long par 4) I think the thing to do is simply create as many tee shot options as possible--in this case up to probably three or even four---which is a lot--and it looks like they could even be fairly distinct. If they are distinct the best thing is to try to get them into some form of balance or equilibrium so they're all used at various times and by various golfers.

The angle of the tee shot from the high ground on the left looks interesting putting the whole fairway on a real diagonal.

I don't know what the green looks like or is shaped like but lets say its sort of long and narrowish and oriented well out to the right as the hole sets up now.

In that case I'd create a bunker line or a few broken bunkers (or maybe bunkers and a low grassy mound or two or something like that in combination) and start it well out to the right bringing it across the fairway on some kind of right to left diagonal.

The thought would be to get a golfer to decide to play well out to the right with more club but a longer shot into the orientation of the green, or to play either short of or over a bunker placed in the line to the right side of the green. Playing over that bunker would be the high risk/high reward play (would that get the golfer in front of the green and into its ideal orientation?). The other option would be to play out to the left in which case that bunker on the left side of the green would need to be enhanced. If the front of it at least could be raised so as to create some blindness of the green surface from an approach from way left that would be good. (hopefully from way out left this approach could have some of the same effect of the large fairway area left but then the tough approach shot of Pacific Dunes's #6---a really great short par 4!).

All this is a suggestion in a vacuum for me though, as I've never been there and I have no idea if this type of thing would make the hole look and play well out of character and context to the rest of the course.

But from that other angle it looks like there is some pretty interesting ways to work up some interesting tee shot options. Obviously things would need to be measured for best effectiveness.

[Marc Haring]

Thanks Paul. Some great ideas there. I think they could work well and would fit into the rest of the course. To be fair though, we are not going to be talking about the same sort of elevation changes you get at Pacific Dunes, especially #6, at least not on that section of the course. But I get the principal of the idea.

The green is a tad bland I’m afraid. Here’s a view looking back to the tee with that high ground over the hedge to the right. Certainly there’s enough room to do what you suggested.
 


We’ve got a whole new nine holes coming on stream soon. Maybe I should post a few pix of the land so as we can get inspired by you Guys.

Thanks.

[TEPaul]

Marc:

That green does look pretty bland. I'm not exactly suggesting it but a very effective way to make that green work for the strategic concepts I just outlined would be to shrink as much greenspace on the right side (as the hole sets up now) to make the green play best with a long and narrow orientation out to the right. I know you can imagine how this would be better (more interesting and challenging) from the perspective of all the tee shot options.

What are those little dark things on the fairway on all the photos of that hole? Do you think a really long golfer could get the ball into that area with a really good tee shot from the left? Because that's sort of the area I'm visualizing as the place they'd end up if they carried the fairway bunker in line with the green's front. To carry over a bunker like that should probably be about 290!

[Paul_Turner]

How short is the par 4?  If it's short enough for big hitters to try for, then that bunker does have a purpose.

[TEPaul]

Paul:

If you're talking about the bunker that's there now it may have a purpose but it apparently doesn't have much of an effective function!

[Marc Haring]

310 off the regular tees, it is drivable. 350 off the tips where it isn't. The green is set next to a small brook located to the back and the right side. This is more of a hazard if your'e going for the green but neither the bunker nor the stream are an effective deterrent.
I think the primary design thinking on this hole was to do as little as possible so as to try and create an essentially natural hole. Apart from the tee and the green there was no shaping or earth removing done. It is kind of nice but coming as hole #17 I think something could have been done at such a critical stage.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mark, one lone little bunker out in the middle of the fairway from that new tee. Make them think a little, and if they complain about it, then you know you did the right thing!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Marc,
I compromised with you. I added your bunker across the way, and then still set my Principle's Nose out there.  I also cut down and away some of the scrub there in front of the tee to open up things a bit.

[Brian Phillips]

Nice work Tommy, very nice.  That is very good photoshop work.  Some of the best I have seen.

Brian

[Marc Haring]

Love it, brilliant. Thanks Tommy.

That one little bunker, bloody perfect. Woking #4 influence?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Actually wasn't thinking of Woking, but more Sunny, Colt, Gil Hanse & Tony Ristola. Their work would fit perfect into this picture.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Marc, Thinking about it some more, and if it could tie-in pretty good to the existing land without screwing-up drainage and the like; I think a green reminescent of Plainfield #12 would be the perfect surface to work with this strategy. What it basically is: a somewhat mid length green with a mound that dissects the center of the green to its length; from back to about 1/3 of the way to the front.

[TEPaul]

This is an interestng little design excercise. It sounds like some good things are available on that hole like the stream back and right I didn't know about.

I'd like to see a situation where that hole has a green that offered an overall choice between an approach shot to a long and narrow target (from the right) vs a wide and shallow target (from the left and over the existing greenside bunker).

If the green's right side was shrunk down it seems like that green could have that configuration.

Tommy:

How about raising the front of the greenside bunker enough to make the easy open tee shot way out to the left offer a shortish but blind green surface approach to a wide but shallow green surface that slopes away from the golfer (the raised face of the bunker could flow into the green surface with a front to back slope from that left angle? If the green sloped that way it would also be interesting for an approach from the right if the small creek is close enough to the right of the green.

[Marc Haring]

That creek is in play for anything a little too long from a left side approach as everything slopes into it and it would be easy to cut the grass on the bank a little. I do like that idea (very much Pacific Dunes #6 strategy as TEP said before I guess) but a green rebuild is out of the question I’m afraid. There’s no way I could swing it with the owners.  Raising that left hand bunker face a little could do the trick though.
This is great stuff Guys. Just shows how good the dialogue on this site can get.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I had this doen very much earlier today. I went to go post it and all of a sudden, I got the black screen of internet death, and after trying to trouble shoot it all to find out what the Hell happened, my next door neighbor asked if my phone was out.  I checked, and of course it too was dead. Going out to the community phone box (I live in a condo) my neighbor and I found one of the 9 year old kids who lives in the condo showing his abilities to be an Electrician!  He actually had wire cutters in hand and cut the entire phone system wires while playing in the box!

Its summer already! YIKES!

So five hours later--here I am after having to retrace everyones wires and reconnect them, including my DSL!

[A_Clay_Man]

Marc- Sorry if I missed it in the content of this thread, but have you talked about the proximity of the 16th green and the net effect of moving to the new teeing ground? I do like the width created by the angle. Does it also shorten the hole?

Great thread guys, and great nose Tom!

[Marc Haring]

Hi Adam.

Yes the 17th tee is located too close to the 16th green, which is causing real concerns from an H&S point of view. As you can see, all the weaker hitters just bail out onto that tee in an effort to get away from the pond. To make matters worse they often wait for the 17th tee to clear and cause a big hold up on that tee. The idea is to relocate the 17th tee on the high ground above the existing one up in between those tall trees.




This pic shows the slope at the back right of #17 running into the brook.





Looking back towards the tee. The new one would be located up on the right near those tall trees right in the centre of the photo.




It will not change the length of the hole much. We could squeeze another 15 or 20 yards out of it but that will be compensated by the downhill drive.
One other thing. The hole plays straight into the prevailing wind.

[paul cowley]

and while you're at it , don't forget to swing the new cartpath at #16 way out and around to create a decent bailout and then on to the new next tee.......sounds like y'all about nailed it.

all the front bunker needs is about 20 minutes with a backhoe ,three yards of sand and some seed ...[but then you would want to re-do the rest of them ,oh well  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Paul, I was thinking the same thing! Once this gets done, its time to do the rest of the course!

BTW, When the Great 8 was in town, I figured you were one of them!

[Forrest Richardson]

I would find a golf course architect and consult with him / her. Find one you enjoy working with and someone you have respect for. Make them a part of all your decisions and allow them the opportunity to weigth the opinions you collect from sources such as GCA, your members / customers and your staff.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Marc,
I of course say bullshit, and do it the way you think it will work best, whether our suggestions help or not. You seem to have a handle on it without Forrest's help.

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