Help!!!...Where Is This???

« **on:** March 02, 2004, 09:00:25 AM »

Yesterday I got a gift catalog from my MBNA credit card and of course they had some golf stuff listed. Within those pages was the following image and it struck me as a CRAZY looking green complex. I think that some of the dramatic elevation change may be due to a "frame of reference" camera trick, but this looks like a HUGE volcano-like green complex. Anybody know where this picture was taken at? I'm just curious as it looks like a neat place to play.

« **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:09:45 AM »

Evan- While I wouldn't rule out Raynor or Langford, my best guess would be Pete Dye. Perhaps in Palm Springs? Perhaps the 4th(?) hole par 3 on the dunes course?

?

« **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:13:31 AM »

Looks to me like PGA West-Stadium, #16 - the weird long par 5 with incredibly deep bunker to the left. But that's just a guess....

« **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:22:08 AM »

I agree with Tom. I'm quite sure its the "San Andreas Fault" hole, 16th at PGA West. I recall some mounding and small homes behind the 16 foot deep bunker as seen in the picture.

On my loan journey around PGA West, I spent about 20 min hitting shots out of there after I holed out. Anything from flop wedge to a full 4-iron into the bank. Quite a fun shot.

Pete

« **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:33:53 AM »

I am not sure where this is, however, I am fairly certain it is not PGA West. The 16th does not have a sunken fairway and the falloff goes into the bunker.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:35:37 AM »

16 at PGA West - Stadium course

« **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:46:11 AM »

Ben:

This is a picture taken from behind the 16th green, looking at the bunker left of the green. Therefore, the background of the photo is not the fairway, its just some mounding to ensure balls do not kick of the steep slope into the front lawns left of the bunker. The fairway and green entrance is 90 degrees left of the photographer.

Pete

« **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2004, 09:49:33 AM »

Concur with Pete.. that's the angle I was thinking of. Odd angle to take a pic from, but it does show the huge bank VERY well.

Great hole, very fun to play. And Pete, we are two peas in a pod - I did the same thing one time there - trying shot after shot from that bunker... NONE worked very well for me, at least not in terms of getting it close... Funny also, Dave Pelz did a whole show from this hole once, showing all the shots you and I tried. Great minds, ya know?

TH

« **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2004, 10:09:11 AM »

Tom:

Funny stuff. Can you imagine trying that 4 iron shot in stroke play competition? Would Pelz endorse that? I wonder if some of the Q school competitors tried that in 2002? My guess is, ahh, no.

Pete

« **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2004, 10:15:07 AM »

I'm with you. Fun to try when it doesn't matter, and damned if it doesn't work pretty darn well sometimes... but trying it when the chips are really down? Ahhhh, no. Well said.

TH

(ps - interesting, in one of the threads on the EDEN hole, I mentioned that I did do this shot aftef going long one time... so no, not when the chips were down, and it was purely what the hell, caddie wants me to... but I did do it!)

« **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2004, 10:47:49 AM »

Don't limit your options. Especially when the chips are on the line. I've seen situations where the unconventional shots, were the way to go. Funny how hindsight is the tell tale. If you miss the conventional, you kick yourself when execution fails. But, if you notice what the right shot is, your confidence level is higher during your swing, than when you default to convention.

« **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2004, 10:55:39 AM »

Well of course, one should consider all options. It is just far more often the best bet to go with the tried and true when the chips are down, methinks - just because you are so much more confident with the tried and true.. that is unless you spend your time slamming 4 irons into banks for practice!

Let's put it this way: in the shot pictured, I'd feel like I can get a lob wedge or sand wedge somewhere on the green about 90% of the time. The 4iron slammed into the bank might get it close 1 out of 10, on the green 3 other times, left on the bank 4 others, rocketed over the green the remaining 2. So if I absolutely MUST get it close, then perhaps the 1 out of 10 chance is worth it. But if I am putting well and can take my chances with a 20 footer or less, well... 90% to get it there is sounding pretty damn good.

TH

« **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2004, 12:46:03 PM »

Tom and Pete,
I am very wrong and you are both right. At first glance it looked like he was playing from a fairway with dew, but I now realize that it is sand... My apologies for being so brash!

« **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2004, 12:47:14 PM »

Ben - no hassles! It is an odd angle and the light is kinda strange also...

Fun hole to play though... hell every hole there is, in a masochistic way.

TH

« **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2004, 12:58:54 PM »

Ben: Agreed, it is a tough angle. Man does that guy look small!

Adam: I hear what you are saying, but if a certain shot is not practiced, it is not usually a wise play. Plus, the possibilities on that 4-iron shot are endless; though one of my attempts went to 10 feet or so, another carromed nearly out of bounds!

Pete

« **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2004, 01:04:38 PM »

Concur completely with Pete, particularly re the results of the experiments at PGA West - my results were damn near identical!

TH

« **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2004, 02:16:02 PM »

Adam,

Right on target!!! Reminds me of the shot that Ricky Barnes played in the US Am two years ago...remember the shot? He had a REALLY tight chip shot to a hole location that fell away from him...he intentionally hit his chip straight across the entire length of the green up a large slope, only to watch the ball come to a complete stop then roll the entire length of the green back towards the hole finishing a few short feet away.

Total distance to the hole from where he stood? About 10-15 feet. Total distance travelled by the ball? About 80-100 feet. Simply brilliant, and balls-y to try and even pull it off under those conditions.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2004, 02:21:54 PM »

E:

Gotta disagree with you re the Barnes example. I remember the shot well and that was just a case of an imaginative player playing the right shot, the only shot that had a chance of getting close. The same might be said for Davis Love III's incredible chip on #16 in the Masters a few years ago... up the slope way past the hole and back to the pin. Great shot, great imagination, but the only shot that could get close. So let's credit these guys for finding and executing the right shot, but not for hitting anything uncoventional.

In your picture, the uncoventional would be slamming a 4iron into the hill. Yes, sometimes that does work... but for all except those who practice that kind of thing, it is not the percentage play. In competition, under stress, it's very rarely wrong to make the percentage play...especially if it comes down to a shot one has hit thousands of times v. one that hasn't been practiced, like Pete says.

TH

« **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2004, 02:25:21 PM »

TH,

I hear what you are saying...and maybe Barnes shot WAS the only way to get it close. I guess I was thinking of us "everyday" players and the general thought that you just about ALWAYS hit the ball at the hole and not away from it. I'm not sure that most amateur players would even dream of executing such a shot, and maybe most pros would ONLY consider it as an option.

I just thought it showed some creativity and unconvnetional wisdom to get the ball close to the hole...nothing more, nothing less.

« **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2004, 02:28:44 PM »

But creativity and uncoventional wisdom is the coin of the realm for the truly great players. I tend to expect it, and thus only applaud it if it is REALLY extraordinary... like some of the shots Seve has pulled off over the years....

But what I am really getting at is each of Barnes and DLIII made the percentage play, in those situations... it looked weird, but it was the highest percentage chance to get close.

And yes, most hacks wouldn't think of it, very true.

TH

« **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2004, 02:35:53 PM »

I've had that same shot at Oakland Hills, and it is just about the only shot you have. But it made me grin to watch it on TV as we've sat there for hours trying to get the speed just right and he did it under all that pressure. His short-game, at least that week, was highly underappreciated.

« **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2004, 08:19:16 PM »

Evan,

It also looks just like the 9th at Landfall/ Dye Course in Wrightsville Beach, NC. Could it be one of many similar Dye holes?

Joe

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