[JerryK]

     Last week I had the opportunity to play a late afternoon round at Beechtree after which I drove to New Jersey and played Pine Hill the following morning and Galloway in the afternoon.
    Beechtree was a true pleasure to play and a course that I would love to have as my home course.  The course was straight forward and challenging without gimmicks or quirks.  The staff was friendly and the course was in very nice shape.  
    I am a Galloway fan and except for those damned flies, it is a wonderful track.  The holes are there for you to see and even though our 17 year old caddy forgot a pin sheet we were still able to get a good idea of the pin placements from our view from the fairway.  
    Pine Hill was another story and I just can't remember playing a course that beat me up more than that one.  You cannot walk the course and you must keep the carts on the paths which isn't so bad if you can see where you are going, but the course left me with the impression that it had the most blind tee shots I have played in a long time and it was a rare case where you could see the greens from the tees. Most of the fairways were pinched in the landing areas and severly sloped.  The starter told us there was water on only one hole which I now realize was meant to tell us that although you cannot see where you are going you are not going to lose a ball in the water.  He also strongly suggested that we try the practice green as while the greens were not that fast, they had some very severe contours.
    Perhaps I am just a sore loser but I felt as if Galloway was a rest after Pine Hill and that was my second round of the day.  Does anyone who has played Pine Hill feel the same way or am I just off base on this?  

[Scott_Burroughs]

I haven't played Pine Hill, but I've read reviews of it that stated the same thing you went through, that you get beat up playing there.  I had a similar experience at Maderas north of San Diego a few months ago, it just beat me up and had so many greens where you couldn't get near the pin from several locations without local knowledge and fairways where only a perfect drive with big carries would be safe.  It didn't help that I had my "D" game with me that day and that my planned round at Torrey Pines (with a pre-paid tee-time) was fogged in, so I also wasn't in the best frame of mind.

[Jerryk]

I am just wondering what they are trying to prove when they are building these courses which give you absolutely no feel of what and how a hole is to be played.  Fazio can and does design some very playable courses but I guess in this instance his goal was to try to make a course tougher than Pine Valley.  It may be more difficult but surely is not more enjoyable.

[Jerryk]

I am just wondering what they are trying to prove when they are building these courses which give you absolutely no feel of what and how a hole is to be played.  Fazio can and does design some very playable courses but I guess in this instance his goal was to try to make a course tougher than Pine Valley.  It may be more difficult but surely is not more enjoyable.

[CDJ]

JerryK,

I had the chance to play Pine Hill last week and agree with you for the most part.
Overall I got a lukewarm feeling about the course, I had expected a bit more given the piece of property it sits on. There are a few things that bothered me about the course:
1. I don't think the greens fees should be as high as they are if they are going to have the greens rolling as soooo slow. I realize they are newer greens and will get faster, but for now I think it is a bit out of line. There just isn't as much enjoyment or strategy when the greens are that slow.
2. They need to soften up the surrounding areas of the bunkers. Do we really need 1FT high fescue, weeds and wild flowers edging all of the bunkers a few feet away from the greens and fairways? I can understand that feature on the perimeter of a golf course but there is no need for it on alot of the interior areas at Pine Hill.
3. Most of the fairways seemed adequate in width, but it seemed that some of the longest par 4's also had the tightest landing areas. An example is #10, 475 yds Par 4, the landing area that we hit into had a large bunker on the right and was pinched in on the left(also steep dropoff into trees on right and a huge mess covered hill on the left)...we paced it off at 22 yards wide at its narrowest point.
4. Many of the holes(some blind) didn't seem to fit my eye off the tee, I found myself having difficulty picking a spot, and shaping a shot to the fairway. Maybe this is a feature that was intended, and it definitely adds to the difficulty.
I will disagree with redanman...I thought the course was very difficult. I have played Galloway(and like it alot) and did not think it was as difficult as Pine Hill. At Pine Hill there is less room to play from(Fairways are narrower& more scrub)...if a fairway is missed at PH, it is a very severe penalty.
There have been many comparisons to Pine Valley in local and national press, I suppose because of the terrain and geographic closeness. Pine Hill has that "Pine Valley" look everyone says...but, as we all know...looks can be deceiving. Everyone knows there is only one Pine Valley, it seems like the Pine Hill layout trys to outdo its neighbor in a few areas...but after all, just ends up looking like the ugly sister with too much makeup.

[CDJ]

Critique du jour...

[JerryK]

Perhaps it was that I just came from Beechtree that I was so disillusioned with PH.  The greens were slow, the course was wet, and they would not let us off the cartpaths.  Perhaps they need forecaddies to give you a feel for what each hole is doing but I just couldn't get comfortable.  Galloway was much more straight forward and inviting and by that I mean challenging.  It let you see the hole and you could feel what you wanted to do.  By the way, did you have a  hard time finding Pine Hill, they told me to turn on Church Rd. and I never did find it.

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