[TEPaul]

We had a huge amount of discussion last year after the National's Singles Tournament and the 2001 tournament was last weekend.

The course was again in the kind of basic condition it was designed for but this year it wasn't quite so firm through the green as last year (only due to rain). Thursday, Friday and Saturday though not a single player could find a pitch mark on any green  to fix! Sunday it rained and the playability was much different--and it was an interesting thing to adjust to.

For me NGLA gets even better after this year just seeing a few things I never noticed before. I maintain that if a golfer has no understanding or minimal understanding of architecture and how it works when designed, maintained and done really well that he will not be able to play well at NGLA. I don't care if he's a really good golfer and hits really good golf shots--if he can't think his way around that course as well as he can hit shots he probably will struggle regardless.

Ultimately that has to be the highest praise for a golf course and it's architecture and maintenance!

[Charles Phillips]

Quit teasing us!  What did you see/notice for the first time in particular?

[TEPaul]

This time I think I particularly noticed how complex it can be to approach #15 green or where to ideally try to put the ball on the green when the pin is anywhere other than the back left. I had never really noticed the extent and size of the rounded mound like contour on the entire front right of the green which seems to make putting to a pin closer to the center (other than the left side) pretty complicated.

I also never really realized all the interesting things that seem to be in the back of almost every NGLA green, whether a drop down bunker, a steep falloff, abrupt dropoff, a berm or bank, exactly how a green surface runs away or comes down back to front etc. I also realized more than before exactly how complex greens #1, #6, #7, #10 (front), #11, #12, #13, #15 and #16 are. There is no doubt that if you put the ball on the wrong part of the green on #1 or #6 you vitually have no chance to two putt unless you can manage to sink a relatively long second putt!

Also as much as I love to stand on the tee of the unusual #17 I must say I really don't see the strategic meaning of much of the right side of the fairway or even what the meaning of the center fairway bunkering is except to steer players clear of them and to the left. Never once in about a dozen trips around the course have I ever seen a player intentionally go to the right of the fairway and try to carry those bunkers (or even to land in front of them). My supposition is that the entire right half of #17 fairway must be for players (maybe ladies only) coming from the ladies tees on the right that can not deal with the left diagonal carry bunker. Possibly very short drivers from the men's tees (on the left) need to steer clear of the left diagonal carry bunker (by driving well right) and well short of the center bunkers and then try a much longer carry over the bunker mounding in front of the green. If they can't manage that they must have to play well right off the tee and then well left of the green on the approach. What I'm saying is the width of the fairway looks great from the tee but there seems to be no reason for a good player to ever consider using the entire right half of the fairway. I say this although I admit I have never played the hole with a 30mph wind right in my face. That might explain things a bit better!

I really never understood the total brilliance of #7 green either. I had no idea just how narrow and small the front (right) of the green is and how much it actually runs away from the player approaching it. I also had no idea about the real playability and deceptiveness of the diagonal (orientation) of the green and what playing to a front pin really involved. For a few days with the pin on the front I laid up for a third shot coming from the right at around 75yds. Knowing that there was very little space to the right of the front pin (VERY little) and that this was also a downhill putt, I tried to hit the ball to the left of the pin and the right of the pot bunker. There was always a considerable amount of wind in my face and the first time I hit the ball about 75yds distance and left of the pin and was SHORT of the green. I forgot that to go left of the pin (and right of the pot bunker) I should have added about 10-15yds to the distance of the shot. That's how visually deceptive that green orientation and diagonal really is--it looks from the approach that it's much more straight across!

There are tremendous similarities with this road hole green and the road hole green on Maidstone (#2). On both these holes you have to really understand what the distances are to the pin and also the distances to the safer areas of the green more than almost any holes I know of.

[John_Sheehan]

TEPaul-
I recently had an experience similar to yours, and based upon that experience, I wholeheartedly agree with you.  There is nothing like hard and fast conditions to reveal the subtleties of design. When the course plays hard and fast, the design features force you to take notice. To ignore them is to do so at your own peril, or at least to the peril of your score.

It is also a lot more fun!

Regarding your observation on #17, about not understanding the strategic nature of "much of the right side of the fairway or even what the meaning of the center fairway bunkering is except to steer players clear of them and to the left":

I have never had the pleasure of playing NGLA, but the GCA review would seem to support your final deduction about the design being dependent upon the wind.

"This is another hole that plays equally well either with the wind helping or hurting. With little wind or with the wind behind, the player wants to smash his drive down the left side, which requires a longer carry but rewards the player with an unobstructed view of the green for his pitch. Into the wind, the player must drive farther right and avoid the bunker placed in the fairway on that side. The approach is appealing to the green ringed with sand." ---GCA Review of NGLA

[Mike_Rewinski]

Tom,
 Like many features that come into play on tee shots at The National, the bunkers on 17 probably make more sense when you take into account the much shorter distances that golfers were able to carry the ball when the course was built. Like the bunkers located in front of you on tee shots on holes 2,3,5,9,10,11, and 15.

I was closely examining the velvet bent on my 12th green and noticed that it has no poa in it, I wonder if that means anything.

[TEPaul]

MikeR:

Gib Papazian was pointing out the patches of velvet in some of the greens at National and that's what he said; that it takes out or crowds out the poa.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Each time I visit NGLA I walk away with new observations and appreciations, and reinforcement of the genius of its architecture.

I think # 15 is a great hole, and underrated.
It is a very demanding tee shot and
I think the back left and back right pin positions force an uncomfortable decision with the golfers approach shot, and dire consequences should he hit long or short, or left or right of the pin.

# 17 has been diluted architectually by the distances the ball is traveling today.  
I hit almost green high on the left, and was told that Robert Floyd drove over the center bunker short of the green, reaching the green with his drive.  This was never possible just 10 years ago.

Mike Rewinski,

Originally, my club in New Jersey had all velvet bent greens.  They were great.  
Over the years Poa has reduced the amount of velvet bent to about 5 % or less.  I wish there was a way to reverse the process.  
Is it possible ?

Sorry I missed you and NGLA at this years singles.

[Gene Greco]

Playing NGLA today! Played at Sand Hills yesterday! Life is good! Will report back with my impressions of The National as soon as I can!!!!!!!!

[John Butler]

Would you explain what the NGLA's Singles Tournament is and would this be an opportunity for someone who is not a member to walk the course and follow play?

[Ed_Baker]

Gene,
In the immortal words of Rich Goodale " You are a stinking piece of 3 day old haggis".
I am JEALOUS,JEALOUS,JEALOUS!

I am going out to the passing lane of the Mass Turnpike to hook in an abrasive yuppies 730I "Beemer" with a puked engine,because he was too cheap to change the oil in an $80,000.00 machine!

Now theres perspective for ya!

Have a great round and let us know what your impressions of NGLA are.

[TEPaul]

As I understand it the National's Singles tournament is the event that they invite both good playing members (of all ages) and also invited guest players who certainly can be really quality players (all ages and some of regional and national caliber) to compete in the categories of both their age category or choice!

I believe it's the annual event that the course gears toward in conditioning and performance. It is a real treat to see a course that's designed like NGLA is conditioned to preform like it's supposed to. I've seen no reason why anyone could not come in and watch the players and look at the architecture of NGLA on that weekend--although I sure can speak for the club that way.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John and TEPaul,

NGLA is a private club, and unless you are a friend or guest of a member, or have prior clearance, you can't just walk onto the course to watch or study.

[TEPaul]

Once again though, if you do walk around on NGLA without permission and you get caught, it's best to say that your little dog jumped out of the window of your car and is running around somewhere out on the course.

It works almost everytime. If for some reason it doesn't at NGLA it will work when you add that your little dog just loves to shit on golf greens particularly ones with spectacular contour and design! You might even get lucky and get Karl Olsen to ride you around in his cart at which point you can learn some more good stuff.

Of course you and Karl aren't going to find your little phantom dog so then you threaten to sue NGLA for killing and disposing of the little runt. They might even let you play a round if you promise to go away afterwards and leave them alone forever!

[Gene Greco]

The membership at NGLA runs the United States of America. They fear no one. They have politely declined allowing former President Clinton to play on two occasions. Sorry, TE, you're gonna have to do much better than that!

[John Morrissett]

Pat--

You may wish to rethink your statement about such driving distances on the 17th "never" being possible ten years ago because of equipment.

I have heard from several eyewitnesses that in 1986 Greg Norman hit 3-wood (!) into the left greenside bunker on the 1st and then splashed out to a couple of feet for a "routine" birdie.  For someone who can drive the 1st green with a 3-wood, I would imagine that, with the right conditions, he could come close to the 17th green with his driver.

Do you mean that if Jack Nicklaus in 1965 had stopped by at NGLA he would not have been able to drive it as far as Robert Floyd in the 1990s?

As for the strategy of the hole, think how different the play from the tee is whether it's into the wind or downwind.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

A hot 3 wood with a good draw from one of the worlds great touring pro's is certainly possible at # 1, But, carrying the frontal bunker complex at # 17 is another matter.

Robert Floyd is longer today than Nicklaus was in 1965, by a good margin.

The prevailing wind on # 1 and # 17 certainly helps, and the holes play drastically different into the wind, demanding the altering of your thought process, route to the fairway and green, and club selection.

[Gene Greco]

It's a known fact at NGLA that years ago the green was as driveable as it is today. The course had no irrigation and the recently deceased Joe Oakey, who was head pro there for decades, accomplished this feat on numerous occasions by hitting a fade which allowed the ball to roll on the hard turf all the way to the green!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Gene,

Which green, # 1, # 2, or # 17, or all three.

On # 17 only Woods, Daly, and one or two others could hit a fade far enough to get by the frontal bunker and run in the direction of the green, which is hard right.  That tree down the left side enters into the trajectory of a fade.

[John Morrissett]

Pat--

All I was saying is that are you certain that prior to 1991 there was not a golfer who could have emulated Mr. Floyd's alleged feat?

As someone once said, "never" is a strong word.

[TEPaul]

George Bahto:

Could you explain when the nines at NGLA were reversed? Were they reversed off the original design plan or after the course was built? I understand a hotel and/or clubhouse near the original 18th green (present #9) was there and burned or was just planned and not built.

The reason I ask is I suspect the present clubhouse was built after the course was built or at least after #1 and #18 were built. I think #1 is just an amazingly unique and brilliant hole but I can't really see a designer placing the clubhouse where it is and THEN designing a hole where you can almost drive the ball over the entrance circle to the cluhouse.

The clubhouse site is super spectacular but it seems like MacDonald must have had original clubhouse plans on the other end of the property and when that changed (for whatever reason) he just barely wedged the present clubhouse in between #1 and #18.

Another reason I would deduce that the clubhouse came after the course was built is I understand that #14 (the cape hole) had it's green practically in the water to the right of the present entrance road. If that is so obviously there was no present clubhouse since there was no entrance road to get to it.

Are those things correct and when was the course finished and when was the present clubhouse built?

[George_Bahto]

Tom Paul:  The original clubhouse was just a ways behind the present 10th tee (off the property) and it was to the left of present 9 green of course. It was called the Shinnecock Inn, a structure that existing long before CB built National.

They were trying to conserve money, putting as much as they could into the building of the course.

Within a year the building caught fire and was lost.

Macdonald then decided to locate the clubhouse on the highest, most picturesque part of the property (it is not the highest - the windmill sits on the highest spot - but hey, who was going to argue with the "old fart").

The service road that runs between the holes served as the road to the clubhouse. The entrance was thru the Vanderbilt Gate (donated by you know who: Willie K Vanderbilt CB's great friend) - that is the gate where Karl's house is. The gates were brought in from one of Willie's yacht clubs.  The cost estimate from a subcontractor was 800 bucks - Macdonald had a fit about the price and had the super (Mike Tureski) go out and seek lower bits etc.....

In the 20's it became apparent that the traffic thru the course to get to the clubhouse (and the Yacht Basin and the beach Club) was a total pain in the ass. That's when it was decided to continue the road beyond the Vanderbilt gates, move the "Cape" hole green out of the water to 35 yards or so further down and "inland" ...... my pet peeve about the term Cape: .... now it was no longer a Cape (definition of Cape: a body of land jutting out into the water on three sides) but they still refer to it as a Cape hole and Cape hole has taken on a completely different connotation to this day.

At the same time he lengthened 17 by 30-40 yards and put in the sandhill.

The new gate (the present gate), called the Macdonald Gate was donated by another great friend, George Bourne - a member and founder of many clubs on Long Island, one of the original founders of NGLA.

The course plays, to me, better starting on present #10 and ending on #9.  I play it that way whenever I can.  I have a copy of the original CB/Raynor blueprint (with CB's crayon markings on it depicting where he was thinking about placing hazards.

Charlie went to the founders and got more funds for that great clubhouse.

The course was originally called The National Golf Course of America and the print has the holes numbered beginning with #10 as #1.

This was a great find because this is where I dug the info on the original tee boxes on Holes 7, 11 and 12 as well as a wealth of other info.

Before the new road and clubhouse were  built, in order to get to the NGLA Beach Club, you had to walk across the 18th fairway about where the driving range is.

Can't you see J P Morgan's 315-foot yacht out Bull Head's Bay.

It's an amazing place now but imagine then, with all those incredible founders.

[Peter Galea]

George, That was excellent, thank you.
You mention George Bourne, Was he related to William Bourne? W. Bourne, from Scotland was the 'builder' (owner) of Filoli, an estate and gardens in Woodside, Ca. (used in the opening scene on a famous primetime soap opera).
Bourne was a large land owner in San Mateo County around the time of Pullman. Also to his credit in 1924 was the "Crystal Springs Golf Links" designed by W. Herbert Fowler and built by Tom Simpson.
Could the Bourne's be brothers? If this is true, I wonder if William, through his connection with George and C.B. was responsible for bringing Raynor west to do MPCC.

[George_Bahto]

Pete

I don't think they were related - G Bourne was a super wealthy financier here in the east

It was Marion Hollins who was responsible for getting Seth to go to MPCC - she and Raynor orked on the Women's National Project out on Long Island. Emmet actually built the course - but I have documentation that Raynor drew up a set of plans gfor Women's National - what appears to have happened was that the plans of Emmet, the plan from Raynor as well as input from CB was melded together by Marion Hollins (who had the last say).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Redanman,

Is there any other hole where your tee ball lies just 40-80 yards from the green, and you're hoping you can walk to the next tee, with a par under your belt on the first hole?

It is clearly the scariest first green in golf.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Redanman,

While ones tee ball can roll, downwind, near the opening to the left, the carry over the front bunker complex, onto the green, is a heroic feat.  Until Robert Floyd, I had never heard of anyone accomplishing this.

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