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TEPaul

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« on: September 28, 2001, 03:43:00 AM »
Along with the hole itself bunkers may be one of the few original holdovers from golf's beginnings. Many understand the origin of bunkers as areas on original links courses that evolved somewhat naturally or from the burrowing of sheep or some other similar offshoot. The use of bunkering as an elemental feature of golf architecture and golf's playability is practically universal. Bunkering is broadly covered in the Rules of Golf and is one of golf architecture's primary artistic expressions. It is also one of golf architecture's primary structural tools in the creation of strategic implications.

We've all heard that bunkers are there primarily to be avoided as they are apt to extract some kind of penalty, and as such, set, to a large degree, how a golf course should be played (its strategies). Bunkers are also considered in the fairly recent "course rating" process (difficulty) and have their own "obstacle rating" which means the degree to which they can extract some kind of playable stroke penalty!

We've seen the function of bunkering evolve in look and probably weaken in function over the years for various reasons. The invention of particular golf clubs certainly contributed as did the push for consistency of sand and lie. The often heard "get in the bunker" would seem to indicate that their function as a strategic obstacle as been reduced to below nothing!

I say all of this to generate a question regarding how bunkering today may have evolved and been altered as a strategic architectural tool and to ask what we all think of how it has evolved and been altered?

It seems most on this website believe that bunkering should create more of a problem and probably more of a penalty than do some others who seem to feel that bunkering should be consistent and fair and really not much more than another type of area to demonstrate consistent shot-making excellence.

The recently rennovated bunkers of Merion have created a large hue and cry due to the alteration of their old evolutionary look as well as the presumed lose of the fearsome implications of their playability. The purists seemed to indicate that changing them would reduce their functional meaning and probably weaken the golf course. The non-purists seemed to indicate that the lack of consistency of lies and such was unfair and problematic.

So let's look at the feedback on the rennovated Merion bunkers and see how the various camps feel about them. I have heard, almost to a man, that they are much harder to play out of now because they are much deeper than they used to be (structural). I have heard that the sand in them and the lies are soft (although that is expected by all to change with some "settling"). Presumably this means that the lies are likely to be consistent but that the rennovated structures of the bunkers will make playing from them much more difficult! I suppose that with the fairway bunkers this will also mean that the spectrum of options will be reduced too!

So it seems that bunkers can function effectively for two basic reasons. 1/ Their lies are unpredictable and potentially penalizing. 2/ Their structures are such (depth) that they are difficult to recover from regardless of the lie. And to a large degree this also includes many of the green side bunkers.

So what do you say? Merion's bunkers (as an example) seemed to be functioning again but in a different way. Now it's not so much the difficulty and unpredicatabilty of the lie but the difficulty of their structures (depth).

But they are functioning as a strategic element! Does it matter how and if so, why?


Mike_Cirba

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2001, 05:32:00 AM »
Darn!  Just when I was on Step 10 of 12 on this subject and progressing soooo well!

Thanks, Tom.  

In truth, you ask a fair and balanced question and let me try to address it in a couple of different ways.  

I believe that bunkers should serve 3 purposes.

1) As a visually psychological hazard
2) As a real hazard in terms of playability, as you suggest
3) As a visually pleasing art form in natural harmony and cohesion with its surrounds.

Let's use your example and examine each area.  Visually, a hazard should draw the eye and let the player know in somewhat uncertain terms that this is something to avoid.  This can be achieved through the obvious (depth, steep walls, gnarly internals and surrounds), or it may be more subtle like the shallower bunker that might not look so fearsome but leaves an awkward recovery because of the angle of the next shot, or the green running away, for instance.  

Still and all, unless a bunker gets into the head of a player, it misses the opportunity to function in a way that consciously affects play.  

I believe the newer style, rounded, more manicured, more consistent bunkers (at any course) lose some of the psychological impact because the player is almost always assured of a clean, flat lie.  Better players, in particular, are not as easily intimidated by bunkers either, even deeper ones, due to these factors.  

In most newer-style bunkers, they are no longer hazards.  They are simply another well-prepared, maintainted "playing surface", largely separate but equal.  They just require a different type of "shot" from the better golfer, and thus lose much of their psychological impact.

On the other hand, let's take the inconsistent, wild bunkering of Pine Valley (which the old bunkers at Merion shared similarities with).  Because the golfer can never be sure what type of lie, stance, or other impediments might come into play if one goes there, they still serve the mental purpose.  

It's the inconsistency and unpredictability that made them hazards in the first place.  With that element removed, the excitement is largely gone.

From the perspective of playability, certainly deeper bunkers can play more difficult, particularly the fairway bunkers.  Still, I prefer to see fairway bunker where the player is tempted to try to still reach the green oftimes, with a razor-thin margin for error.  It's that type of decision making that fairway bunkers function best as.  If the only option is to blast out to the fairway, that's certainly one function of bunkers, but a limited one in many respects.

I'd also state that deeper bunkers at greenside generally don't have the same penalizing effect on the better player, particulary in these days of 60 and 64 degree lob wedges.  Give a good player a clean, firm lie, and you'll generally get the consistent, expected, good result.

Finally, just as a totally subjective exercise, it's been a real thrill in recent weeks to see just some fabulous, rough-hewn, gnarly bunkering at places like Gil Hanse's Inniscrone & Applebrook (w/kudos to Rodney & Bill K.), Ed Carman's Running Deer, and Archie Struthers Twisted Dune.  

Besides being psychologically and visually striking, as well as ruggedly natural and in harmony with their surroundings, they also seem to offer the type of inconsistency and certain uncertainty that make them play as hazards for all levels of golfers.


   


Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2001, 05:37:00 AM »
Bunkers function these ways:
Provide contrast.
Aid and deceive depth perception.
Dictate the shot or route to be taken.
"chief sherpa"

TEPaul

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2001, 07:27:00 AM »
MikeC:

You gave all the right answers as far as I'm concerned. The drift of your answers might lead one to conclude though that bunkers might be looked at in two categories--greenside and others.

It seems that there isn't much to prevent good players from escaping effectively from greenside bunkering no matter how deep they might be, given consistent sand and lies. For that they can probably thank modern equipment more than anything to do with the bunkering. For other bunkers (fairway and such) they really can't display their recovery talents if the bunkers' depths prevent it!

I look at the latter as giving up on a wider spectrum of recoverability but probably  having more strategic impact because of the depths! I thought of this (depth of fairway bunkers) for two reasons. 1/ The feedback from those that have played Merion's new bunkers (both purists and others) and also the really penal aspects of the bunkering at Royal County Down.

RCD has numerous bunkers through the green on a few of its holes and they really make you sweat standing on those tees and such. You can't help but notice them and deal with them and they very much effect your thought processes and the club selections and such, simply because if you get in some of them you can really only take a wedge or something like it and just try to get out of them period. Some of them are quite small with enormous overhanging lips and it's just a matter of luck where your ball ends up in them which is a big part of determining your escape. The lies in them are quite consistent though. These RCD bunkers are also some of the best looking in terms of ruggedness I've ever seen!


BillV

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2001, 07:44:00 AM »

Direct play-strategy
Intimidate-to varying degrees
Punish/Reward
Provide aesthetics/complement nature (Or be natural)



Ted_Sturges

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2001, 07:47:00 AM »
Bunkers make you think prior to playing a golf shot.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2001, 07:54:00 AM »
I believe that every bunker should have perfectly groomed, extremely firm sand, and a low lip. Bunkers should universally be placed where I don't hit the ball.

(That's a little joke, boys, for those who've been following my tussle with Mr. Mucci on the "A QUIZ" thread.)

Seriously: I agree with every word Mr. Cirba said, above. On to Step 11!

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tommy_Naccarato

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2001, 07:57:00 AM »
Bunkers are supposed to instill fear and depression. That is their purpose, and what makes them even better is the feeling of success when one extricates him or herself from such a nasty pit of dispair.

It's like escaping from the claws of a demon, except sometimes you are million miles from where you intended. Bunkers are the road block that prevent you from where you want to be. They are like similar to a road block in ones life, they should be a learning experience but sometimes one has to experience this dilema over and over until they figure out that there is indeed a better road traveled, go find it.

I have never met a famed bunker that I didn't want to challenge, and the thrill of taking it on while risking your golf score is even more exhilirating. At Pacific Dunes, I really found myself wanting to try to hit a shorter club from the left hand side, to challenge those huge deadly jaws of sand left of the green on #6. Imagine my dismay when I hit short right of them near the green. Those bunkers did their job, they insighted fear in my psyche.

When thinking of the jaws of the famed "Devil's Asshole," I reminded of a passage from the 23rd Psalm, The Lord is my shepard, there is nothing that I lack. In green pastures you let me graze; to safe waters you lead me, you restore my strength. You guide me along the right path for the sake of your name. Even when I walk through a dark valley. I fear no harm for you are at my side; your rod and staff give me courage......

And then you draw your club back to take the mighty blow and to experience the final result.

That is the game of golf.


Mike_Cirba

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2001, 08:08:00 PM »
Tom Paul,

Just as an aside, I have to believe that the 12-Step program I'm on is working, and I also have to believe that Tommy Naccarato is on one, as well.  

Not a mention from either of us about a particular golf club or famous architect.

Can you believe the restraint we exhibited?  


Tommy_Naccarato

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2001, 08:19:00 PM »
Mike,
I must be tiring in my old age. I'm just trying to not give Jim Lewis a heart attack.

TEPaul

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2001, 11:02:00 AM »
Sorry fellas, I didn't realize you were on some rehabilitation program. MikeC seems to be doing well but I'm a little worried about TommyN when he says things like bunkers are supposed to instill depression. That's a little backsliding or forgetfulness on your part TommyN and you must still be fixating on Merion's bunker rennovation program when you make a remark like that.

TommyN, I feel your pain but the question really isn't about Merion's new bunkers per se, just a question about some feedback from their new playability and how that might compare to some fairway bunkers on some other well known courses.

MikeC makes a good point that a certain amount of tempting recovery shot potential seems to be a good thing, but face it, there are numerous fairway bunkers on well respected courses all over the world that are very deep and very penal to escape from. Certainly some at TOC where I've seen the pros having to come out of sideways or backwards. Pine Valley has plenty were the same play might be prudent (although many times it could be lie related instead of structural). There was one at RCD on the 3rd hole that had the bigest lip I ever saw that seemed to defie gravity. I could have hidden under there for a week (might not be a bad place for Osama to hang out in for a day or so!).

So again, the question is; Sure recovery potential is a good thing but some severely penal fairway bunkers that are structurally penal can have a very direct impact on strategic considerations (like avoid them at all costs), don't you think? If you're telling me that's a bad thing then aren't you criticizing those penal fairway bunkers I just mentioned that have been on some of the well known courses I mentioned for years?


Mike_Cirba

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2001, 11:54:00 AM »
Tom Paul,

Don't get me wrong.  For religious reasons, I LOVE penal fairway bunkers, such as those you mentioned.  The first time I was in some of the beauties on TOC I felt like a mole in a hole.  

And you're absolutely correct.  They direct strategy on a number of great holes and also provide the requisite punishment when one enters their depths.  

Plus, HOW COOL do they look??  

For the longest time, nothing could get my heart beating faster than the bunkers along the 13th green or 17th fairway at Muirfield, or the Strath and Hill bunkers at TOC.  The deeper, gnarlier, and uglier the better, and I didn't care of you filled them with hordes of pestilent locusts....after all, they should be avoided!

However, I'm starting to find myself perhaps becoming swayed over slightly too much to the strategic side of the game.  I'm starting to feel that what real minimalism means is that anything that dictates only one option should be either removed or reconsidered from a golf course.  

As much as I love deep fairway pits, I think back to a debate I had here with Darren Kilfara, who argued that the fairway pots on the links courses were too one-dimensional in their usual hack-it-out punishment.  

I'm beginning to think that's also the reason we generally dont much favor woods, lakes, deep rough, etc.  I'm starting to envision my dream course being one giant fairway, with bunkers of all shapes, depths, and sizes, leading to all kinds of greens at different angles, placements, undulations, etc.  It would not have either a tree or a blade of grass higher than fairway.  

Wasn't Augusta supposed to be something like that?  It's funny how our ideals and ideas evolve over time.


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2001, 12:58:00 PM »
Not much to add, particularly to Mike's insightful original reply.  Just one thing; can't grass bunkers function with all three of Mike's criteria of purpose.  I think there is a place for natural hollows or sculpted to appear so, in bunker fashion with a totally grass structure and floor that can be as fearsome and more so than sand.  Native grasses, or planted fescues with undergrowth of blues cut to 4-6 inches particularly placed in the 25-75 yard from green surrounds are as unpredictable of a feature as can be and can are naturally occurring or artfully formed for aesthetic appeal.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

T_MacWood

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2001, 01:39:00 PM »
Very well stated, I would only add a couple of thoughts.

First there's something haphazard or unpredictable about a well bunkered courses--some elements that defy logic, just a nature sometimes defies man-made ideas of order.

And secondly the least talked about factor in the function of bunkering is knowing when not to use them, and allowing interesting undulations or land formations to dominate.


Tommy_Naccarato

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2001, 01:43:00 PM »
Tom, I don't see in this where I mentioned one word about Merion. I'm talking of all GREAT bunkers in general. Merion no longer has any of these.

They, like the fabled course are history.


Patrick_Mucci

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »
TEPaul,

When you are in the front, greenside bunker on # 8 at NGLA, and the pin is up front, doesn't that shot strike fear into ANY player ?

If the pin was far right, wouldn't that be equally frightening ?

If the pin was all the way back right, wouldn't that be difficult as hell for any player ?

At some courses there is a unique tie in between the bunkers and the green, compounding the difficulty of the bunker shot, putting pressure on the shot, making the safe exit a difficult putting challenge.


BarnyF

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2001, 02:06:00 PM »
Mike,

If you own a 64 degree lob wedge you are a sick puppy.

When gathering my thoughts about bunkers I hark back the the donkey that carried the Virgin Mother across the waste areas of the Middle East.  Not since the 78 Seville that carried Allen Iverson's mom across our great nation has something been called upon to carry such precious virgin cargo.  Did the hand of God balance the dumb animal as it delt with the differing sand conditions across their great trek or was the donkey through his own cunning able the make the necessary adjustment to remain upright through a combination of instinct and feel.  Can you imagine the futures of countless souls on the houves of a donkey that relies on instinct and feel when modern golfers demand sterile conditions even in so called hazards.  We only carry on our shoulders the fear of reporting a poor score to the ass sitting in the grill room.  Sand is a beautifully quasmatic environment providing transport one day and soaking up the blood of fallen warriors the next.  A great bunker will inspire the strong and crush the weak.  


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2001, 02:25:00 PM »
BarnyF,

Are you - or have you written down your ideas anywhere else where we might peruse them besides on GCA?  If not... why not?

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2001, 03:13:00 PM »
MikeC and TommyN:

Is there any room for BarnyF in your 12 step program and if not do you think you could get him into a 24 step program?

Tommy:

No, there wasn't a single mention of Merion on this thread by you, but when you said above that bunkering instills depression it just occured to me that maybe they were still on your mind--back of your mind--whatever.

Pat:

The fronting bunkers on #8 NGLA combined with the height of the green and the fall-off back down into the fronting bunkers is definitely one of the best bunker/green combos I've seen.


TEPaul

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2001, 03:20:00 PM »
Speaking of bunkers brought to mind one helluva unusual one I saw recently. What do all of you who have seen it think of that extraordinary monstrosity staring you in the face on the tee shot on #17 Dunluce Portrush? From the base to the top of the bunker must be 35ft high!! How do they keep the sand in that thing from sliding down into a heap at the base? And MikeC the recoverability in that thing must be nothing but sideways. I don't think I could throw a golf ball over it!

Tommy_Naccarato

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2001, 03:44:00 PM »
Tom,
All is well, I loathe the new bunkers more then ever. Especially since I haven't seen them in person

My mention of depression was meant to be the emotion one feels when approaching a deep nasty pit and seeing that their ball in play is in it. More specifically the people who fear sand hazards as such. Then there are those types of hazards similar to Rees' wonderful creations at Atlanta Atheletic Club where one simply has to putt out of them for a excellent recovery. Lets call them Prosac-style bunkers.  

Nothing but happy-happy joy-joy thoughts here.


TEPaul

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2001, 05:03:00 PM »
TommyN:

I'm starting to get your drift. You were referring to depression at the realization of finding your ball in some inextricable pit or even the prospect that might happen when faced with really great bunkering!

I understand! Wait a minute--is this the same TommyN that planned careful strategy with his increasingly depressed caddie to actually see if he could fly his tee shot into the DA at Pine Valley.

TommyN get a refund on your 12 step rehabilitation program and negotiate a two for one package deal on a new 24 step program! And be certain that Katz isn't running it because I'm afraid he's learned far too much about golf architecture hanging around this site--and any objectivity he thought he might have had has just been inherited by the wind, at this point.


Tommy_Naccarato

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2001, 06:23:00 PM »
That's it Tom!

The same depression that Bill Greenwood, Buddy Marucci, Tosh Belzinger(sp), and other "schooled" Merion members along with the Great King Fazio found when they decided to reinvent the wheel--The perfect protypical Merion bunker.

The sand wasn't white enough, and the grass around the edges wasn't green enough, and the scores weren't high enough for them to be good anymore. They also uad a strange unkept appearance that made them look too natural as if they had been there for years, which in their perfect manicured world, just didn't work. Everything must be neat and organized. Prim and proper.

The scores of the unknowledgable will never shut up to this thinking, hence these 24 step programs that promote a level headed thinking that will cause less pressure on ombligata mendata. (sp again)

Am I over it? Nah, I will always ache knowing that I'm right and their wrong, and that the most perfect bunker the American game has ever known no longer exists.

There, I have broken any abstinence my pathetic life has ever possesed.

I need a drink.


Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2001, 06:54:00 PM »
BarnyF,
Are you related to Kafka?
Whew!
"chief sherpa"

Mike_Cirba

Revisited--the function of bunkers
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2001, 08:25:00 AM »
I have a short little story from this evening to share about Merion's bunkering.  

I often take the drive along Ardmore Ave. and did again this evening to visit a female friend after work.

In years past, I would often drive into the gutters, or minimally irritate the drivers behind me as my neck would crane to look and admire the bunkers.  

In the past year or so, I would perform the same exercise, those times to watch the progress of the bunker work.

So, you get the picture..in the past..  NOTHING...not danger, not traffic tickets, not road rage, would defer me from my fascination with the white faces.

And yes, BarnyF...I am a sick puppy but I don't carry a 64 degree...just a possessed 60 degree wedge that has accounted for probably 87 percent of my strokes in recent years.  Patrick and many others can attest to this demonic club.  And though I admit to a certain obsession about bunkers and Merion in general, today was sort of an epiphany that one can draw their own conclusions to.

You see, as I passed 13, 1, and headed up the hill that parallel the long par five second, I was doing my usual look around when all of a sudden I saw two comely young women jogging towards me on the right side of the road (away from the view of the 2nd).

Wearing tank tops and shorts, I clearly had a decision to make as to which of the views to avert my driving eyes to.

Instinctively and unregrettably, it turned out to be an easy choice.  In years past, it would have been a tossup.  


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