[SPDB]

Tom - I think you are correct about the Eden and Redan holes, they are certainly both uphill holes, you might even be able to make the case that the Biarritz 8th is uphill as well. However, i think the short is downhill. This would be in keeping with the numerous other short holes (PRC, Creek, National, Shoreacres, MPCC, Lookout), all of which are downhill. The only exceptions to this I can think of are Yeamans Hall (never played - but pictures seem to indicate uphill), and Westhampton - but that hole is no longer a short in the Raynor/MacDonald sense of it.

I do think you are right however, about holes that play over depressions or chasms. This is one of the camouflage features of short holes, which I have always found intriguing. Short holes built by SR/CBM seem always to have pushed-up greens, which makes gauging orientation (either uphill, downhill, or neither), more difficult. Further evidence that the strategy of these holes is sound, and they need not be tinkered with by green committees interested in adding challenge, by way of dumping length into the hole.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Mike,

Your Castle Harbor example is exactely what I'm talking about. Most people don't see this, because they don't have a reason to stand on the forward tees. Sometimes it can be quite intimidating.

One thing I have found regarding tee placement on these types of holes is that the forward tees can be higher than the back tees and not intrude on the line of sight. And the more uphill the hole plays the higher the front tee can be.

[BillV]

#2 Philmont North is reasonably but not severely uphill.  A good hole.

[bill_steele]

Another dastardly Donald Ross uphill par three is #6 at French Lick. About 220 yards, all carry with out of bounds left. While the bunker configuration allows for one to run the ball up, forget it on most shots. The hill is so steeply pitched that there is virtually no bounce there. One of the fellows in the pro shop told me that when it plays into the wind most regulars hit driver and still can't reach it. After playing it twice, I would have been happy with a bogey.

[TEPaul]

Some of you boys must be from the desert! A few of the holes mentioned here are uphill or maybe just "raised" but a few don't fall into any category of STEEPLY uphill. Shinnecock's #11? No way! Quite a raised green but not STEEPLY uphill.

Probably the most STEEPLY uphill par 3 I've seen is one, I believe, on Hershey West (Maurice McCarthy). It's one of the courses they play the Pennsylvania Junior Boys Championship every year. I know they use the Hershey West course for the Pa Junior Boys but they may use a third course too. Mike Cirba do you know if Hershey owns three courses out there and if they do it's the third course?

Anyway, this par 3 is about 130yds and so steep even these kids looked like they felt they had to hit wedges to 8 irons high and you know how high some of these kids hit the ball anyway. I don't think you can possibly see a flag and I think you also have to traverse the hill going up to the green it's so steep.

This is an interesting hole and I don't think any architect would have used it if he didn't have to! I know enough about routing to tell that this architect found some very nice holes leading up to this one and some good holes getting away from it. The problem for whoever the architect was, the holes leading up to this one he basically worked his way into a real severe corner (on the property) both in terms of no space and severe topography.

In other words, if he was going to use the hole preceding this one (and those preceding that one) he had no option at all getting away from it but to go with this severe uphill short par 3. The only other routing option was to just walk the steep hill and have the next tee where the hole following this thing is. So he obviously just went with it. But it's so steep that it even looks like some golfers might try to "scoop up on" a lofted iron!

Interestingly, I think if Gil went straight up the hill from where #5 green is to where #5 tee is at Inniscrone it might be about the same steepness as this one! I think Gil planned to come from the left of #4 green and the green was planned on #5 somewhere to the right of where the present one is. But there was some pipe easement problem they weren't aware of and also some trees protected by some environmental concern. I'll check with him about what the problem was. I like #5 as a short downhiller but in a routing sense it's definitely about the worst "backward Indian" I've ever seen.

Whoever mentioned the two long par 3s at Manufacturers picked two good steep uphillers and one of my favorites is Philly C.C. #15! This one is real uphill for a long par 3 (probably 225yds) and is just a marvelous design in every way. It basically plays to a bit of a real uphill reverse redanish effect. Getting the ball on the green is about as hard as any par 3 I can think of and it just amazes me how many people try their socks off to do it when they should know that playing the ball into the fairway in front of the green is going to get you a better average score day in and day out without doubt!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul,

Thanks for jogging my memory about the one at Hershey (it's on the "South" course, which for years was the public layout called Hershey Parkview).  You're correct that Hershey owns 3 courses, the West & South by Maurice McCarthy, and the East by George Fazio, which hosts a Buy.com tour event.  The West and South are the infinitely better courses.

The hole you mentioned is, I believe, the 5th if the course is still routed the same.  McCarthy built 3 holes in a row along a neat creekbed, starting with the second, which is a long, dropshop par three over the creek, and then two medium length par fours that dogleg in different directions using the creek strategically.  Unfortunately, that took him to the low point of the property, as well as to the boundary.  

How to get out of that mess?  Well, right back up the hill with the 5th!

You're right...I don't recall seeing much of anything except perhaps the top of the flagstick, but it was incredibly fun.  In fact, you can see the hole from the road if you're driving up 322 into Hershey Park.  Just look for the green along the creek in the corner of the property, and look left UP the HILL and that is the 5th. Don't worry if you can't see a green up there....it's there  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Mike,
Are there any courses in eastern PA that you haven't played?  

I think you said you hadn't played Towanda CC.  How about Clayton Park?

[Mike_Cirba]

Scott,

Yep..never played Towanda...but have played the infamous Clayton Park!  How about a couple of steep uphillers/downhillers there!?

[Mike_Cirba]

And Scott,

It only appears that way.  

In fact, I was putting together a list of "hope to play's" just this week, and was surprised to see so many so close to home I haven't yet visited.  

Quoting Mark Fine, "so many courses, so little time".

[Joe Zaepfel]

Informative thread. Has anyone mentioned Royal Portrush #6 "Harry Colt's" and #14 "Calamity Jane"?

[Greg Stebbins]

Not very well known.. but #14 on the south course at Westchester is directly uphill.  The hole really penalizes a poor shot, but anything on the green gives a great chance at birdie.

[Will E]

I've got to come to the defense of Concord's Monstrosity. It is a very good tournament course if set up correctly. Number 7 is a very difficult par three. I don't hate it, and George I'd give it two snaps in a circle.

Without repeating what's already been mentioned; I like La Costa's third hole, a very fine par three playing uphill for sure. All of the par threes on the tournament course here are strong. It's too bad they couldn't have left well enough alone here.

I thought that #11 at Crystal Downs was uphill too but have learned that it is level.

The thirteenth at Bear's Best was nice too. More to come on this course soon.

Like many of you I'm pretty sick of the downhill par threes we keep seeing. If you want overkill on downhill par threes head to Treetops. (Number nine on Rick Smith's Threetops is a good uphiller.)

[John_McMillan]

According to my topo map, the 9'th at Crystal Downs plays 30 feet uphill, the 11'th plays 20 feet uphill.  The 9'th is straight uphill, the 11'th is across a valley.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Dan Kelly,

I've waited a few days to post this, because I didn't want to disagree with you without providing at least a weak reason, but I can't find the merit you do in the 9th hole at the Wilds.

I don't like the uphill tee shot, because you don't have a clue where to hit the ball. There is nothing (other than signage) letting you know if you should favor the left, right, or middle of the fairway. The tee shot then devolves into a slugging contest to see how far you can drive. Length certainly does provide an advantage.

However, I do like the approach shot. The bunker in front of the green is intimidating and adds excitement. And I LOVED the way the back slope of the bunker is carried into the green. A shot landing just past the lip of the bunker will trickle onto the putting surface. A difficult shot, but it may be the only way to get the ball close to the hole when the pin is near the front.

I'm all for giving the long hitters an advantage, but I prefer to make them think a little too.

[archie s.]

Anyone who has played at the Country Club of Charleston (SC) knows one of the toughest uphill par threes I've ever seen. It was pretty good to get out of there with a four, no matter how good you played. Basically an island green with air all around. Not oneof my favorites, but certainly unique and different!

[Dan Kelly]

Jeff McDowell --

I said it'd been more than a year since I played The Wilds. Now, having consulted their Web site, I see that I was wrong: There is no short-right greenside bunker on 9, behind those fine cross-bunkers. (I agree that they're terrific -- though I'm not sure that one could get up the slope to the green by bouncing a 2nd shot off the back of those bunkers.)

So I take back my earlier statement; there's NOTHING I'd change about the hole. It's my favorite hole on the course.

Yes, as you say, length helps -- but (as with the do-or-regret tee shot at 13) I don't see why requiring some length, in order to make a regulation par, is a bad thing. It's not as though a shorter hitter can't play No. 9. There are no forced carries that a shorter hitter can't handle. He or she can play it just fine -- for 5 or a one-putt 4, if not for a regulation 4. What's the problem there?

As for the player's being given no clue whether to drive left, center or right: From at least the back tee, one can see the entire hole! The fairway's wide open, between trees on both sides; you can see the cross-bunkers; you can see the green. What help does one need?

From the tee, the hole yells at me: Just hit the darned fairway, as far out there as you can! What's wrong with that, for guidance?

[Dan Kelly]

I shouldn't be so definitive. I'm not sure you can see the entire hole from the tee. But I think you can. Can't you see AT LEAST the fairway, the cross-bunkers, the greenside-left bunkers and the flag?

That's enough for me.

[GeoffreyC]

I have not read this whole discussion so this may have been touched already but

I really like uphill par 3's but the very best ones are not necessarily steeply uphill but instead mederately uphill to the extent that most or all of the green surface is hidden but there are still multiple ways to play the hole with regard to the trajectory of the shot (ie- not only high shots will work).

They present thoughtful problems with regard to
1- judging the wind- depending on direction will the ball be knocked down or helped as much as on a level shot?
2- not seeing the green surface and having to blindly remember how the ball might react when it hits the green. You have to know the contours of the green. They are not staring you in the face as with downhill holes.
3- judging trajectory of the shot chosen and how it will subsequently react on the ground
4- anticipating results of what you think is a good shot.

I did read enough of this to see that Fenway's 11th, Shinnecock 11th and Ballybunion #12 are selected and I agree with all of those choices (BTW Paul- was that really a photo of Ballybunion 12 ??- is it taken from short right of the green?)

I notice that Tillinghast frequently had a moderately uphill 3 par on his courses or in the case of Bethpage where he didn't, he used the lip of the front bunker on 17 to hide the green surface.

I like this architectural use of partial blindness yet you get to put the ball on a tee and choose where within the tee box you start the hole. I think its a good way to force the player to think a bit. Remember the quote about how dangerous it is to use your brain on a golf course  

[Jeff_McDowell]

I guess we'll agree to disagree, because you're statement that "Just hit the darned fairway, as far out there as you can!" is exactely all that hole says, and is precisely why I find little architectural merit with the tee shot. Like I said earlier, I prefer golf holes that make you think a little.

[Kyle Harris]

Bumpity Bump Bump...

This thread was an enjoyable read, and I am sure the cognesceti here can add some good holes in this category.

Already mentioned were two Philly area gems in the 11th at Manufacturer's and the 4th at Lulu (which are, at most a quarter mile apart as the crow flies).

I was surprised that Tom Paul and Mike Cirba didn't mention the 16th at Whitemarsh, which is probably one of the all-world uphill par 3s in the game.

While not as steep, the short par 3 16th at Schuylkill Country Club is definately an awesome hole, with a great green and darn good bunkers.

16th at Schuylkill CC

[Evan_Green]

Tehama has not 1 , but 2 steeply uphill par 3's on the front nine! (I believe they were #3 and #6)

They are quite tough holes to birdie.

[James Bennett]

Victoria Golf Club, #14, short par 3.  Steeply uphill, and a transition hole to get the player from the 13th green back up to the 15th tee 150 yards away, along a boundary of the golf course.

Victoria #14 is much steeper than the Melbourne counterpart's of Kingston Heath #15 par 3 (although not as dramatic), Yarra Yarra #11 and somewhat steeper than Commonwealth's short #9.  Can't comment on the Royal Melbourne short, uphill par 3 (was #7 on the old composite, now its ??) as I haven't seen it.

James B

[Andy Hughes]

Just for Messers Cirba and Ward, I present the 7th hole at Glenbrook in the Poconos, the Airplane hole, when played from the lower tees.

Too bad the picture does not show off the way the green sits way above its surrounds (and when was that bunker added? How can someone bounce it on from the right with that trap there?)

[Brad Tufts]

Steep uphill par threes (w/an emphasis on N. England)....

#3 Beverly Golf & Tennis...Wayne Stiles brings you directly up a rocky hill, probably 60-75 ft.  This 150 yard par three demands at least two clubs extra, and as a fun aspect, the flag is about 25 ft. tall so you can make out the top of it.

#4 Kernwood CC....A Ross hole of 165 that plays at least 50-60 feet straight up, and #17 (125y) as well, though the shot is with a wedge.

#11 Essex County Club...One of Ross's best par threes at 175.  The green is 40-50 feet above the tee.

#8 Brae Burn...Another Ross hole, playing brutal at 210 over a chasm to a green 30 feet above the tee.

#17 Vesper CC...one of the Findlay holes, redesigned by Ross, brutal as well at 220 and uphill maybe 30 ft.

#9 at Gannon Municipal....a Stiles hole that is completely blind off the tee and 230.  There is a periscope to see over the hill if the green has cleared.

#7 at Eastward Ho!...Hole played directly uphill at 175, with a tough false front.

I agree that the better place for an uphill approach is on a par four, there are good uphill par threes to be found, although few as steep as the first two on this list.  

[Andy Troeger]

The 5th at the French Lick Springs Valley Links (which is flat as a pancake otherwise) goes up probably 30-40 feet (from my memory of a hole I havent' played in 8-10 years). Its about 105 yards, green has three tiers going back to front mainly, also a little right to left (slightly angled green if I remember right). There wasn't much room to miss, and this one used to drive me nuts, I was thrilled to walk off the silly hole with a 4!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()