Golf--and the distinctions of a sport vs a game?

[TEPaul]

Max Behr, in analyzing the beginnings of golf and also the essence of it as it was originally---compared to how it was evolving, made the distinction constantly between golf as a "sport" vs golf as a "game".

The reasons for those distinctions appeared to him to be fairly numerous and also fundamental.

We've been looking closely at the distinctions recently and they appear to be very interesting.

Hopefully not to mince those two words but how do some of you feel about those distinctions? Do any of you have any real idea what he meant by golf as a sport vs golf as a game?

[Yancey_Beamer]

TP,
As usual Max Behr is too cerebral to interpret easily.
Ernest Hemingway stated that there were three sports,Bullfighting,Auto racing and Mountain Climbing,"all the rest are just games". He was only interested in blood sports.
Personally when I attempt a difficult shot I would prefer not to be gored if I fail.Perhaps it's a matter of perspective.
YB

[JakaB]

In only a game would the PGA Tour promote women, children and cripples playing at the highest level....funny that of the three only the cripple had to sue for the right to play.  In a sport only the best play not the pittied or privilaged.

[Michael Moore]

Sport is from the Old French desporter meaning "diversion from serious duties".

Game is much older, from the Teutonic gamen meaning "amusement, delight, fun, mirth." Often seen as "game and glee", "game and play", "joy and game".

I'll take gamen any day.

I'm still trying to get my head around the "infinite space and time" ramblings of Mr. Behr. It is proving worthwhile.

[Forrest Richardson]

Golf is neither a a game or sport. It is a business transaction carried out over an area of awarded luck and encouraged misfortune. The unique aspect of golf is your cleint, which is nothing more than conditioned nature -- the golf course.

[TEPaul]

Forrest:

Now don't you be cynical! Golf does have an interesting present, but it's got a more interesting past and hopefully its future can take more from its past than it's present.

Michael Moore:

Great stuff! Don't you ever go away--you and your thoughts and info make a truly unique contribution to Golfclubatlas.

JakaB:

In every "semi-mini" culture (Golfclubatlas) there needs to be a social commentator/satirist as well as a pin-prick--and in our case, that's you!

Yance, my man:

Forget about Ernest Hemingway and his "blood sports". The man couldn't have been a real golfer, and anyway, he had to have been maternally deprived from the git-go!

PS:

Trivia Note!

Just wait until I tell you guys what Geo. Crump had in mind--had he lived--for women's golf at Pine Valley!!! (thanks to some great research from LuLu's Steve Sayers)

[JohnV]

To me the difference between golf as a sport and golf as a game is the difference between playing in a competition vs just playing.  Golf is a sport when we are in competition against others.  Because of that, we need specific rules and must follow them.  Golf is a game when we are just playing for fun and just testing our own abilities.  During that time, strict adherence to the rules is not required although many of us still follow them, but things like qood etiquette are.  

When I go out to a local public course and play with 3 guys I don't know and we are just having fun, we are playing a game.   I don't care what they do as long as they treat me and the course with respect.

When I went out to my old course on a Saturday morning and played with my three buddies in a $10 death match, we are playing a sport and if words could cut, it would be as much as blood sport as any Hemingway ever saw.

Games are supposed to be fun, sports are competitive.  Sports can also be fun as was a match that I refereed between Tim Hogarth and Jeff Wilson at the US Mid-Am last year.

[A_Clay_Man]

Along the lines of JohnV's thoughts I think golf encompasses more and fits into each individuals life differently.

For me it's more sport and religion. Sport because one does run the risk of getting a spheroid imbeded into ones skeleton, somewhere, (as recently happened to a friend) and whether I am out having fun with buddies and playing a game, I still am in competition with the course and the elements.

Religious because it alows for hypnotic reflection on ones insides and character.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
Golf, for me, is both sport and game. The need for physical activity would define it as sport but because there are rules it is also a game. I like how JohnV explained it but it also can be seen from another perspective that I feel is just as valid.

Golf as a game has many rules. When we are playing golf in a  competitive fashion we must follow these rules or else be penalized in some fashion.  
Golf as sport doesn't have any rules. When we are out on the course for the sheer enjoyment of hitting shots (preferably good ones), putting, chipping, etc., we are playing the sport of golf.

Who knows what Hemingway had in mind but bullfighting has plenty of physical activity, a prerequisite for consideration as a sport, and no rules (staying away from the horns is not a rule, just good, common sense), therefore it sure isn't a game.




    

[TEPaul]

JimK & JohnV;

It's interesting that the way the two of you feel about golf the sport vs golf the game, in the context of competition vs recreation, is exactly opposite.

For whatever it's worth, JimK, your feeling about it appears to be much closer to many of the things that Max Behr was saying.

Behr didn't exactly put what he was saying in the specific context of man playing golf as a competition or a recreation. To him a golfer could do either and feel it to be a sport.

The element that Behr was focusing most on is the inclination of man to limit and define golf in the context of both the rules of how to play it as well as the limitations man put upon the ground (nature) with his "architecture" by the utilization of numerous boundaries and formulaic areas that became perceived as "penalty" areas vs "safe" areas.

That to him was a litany of man-made "game principles" that eventually became "prejudices" in the minds of golfers and resulted in all kinds of restrictions and eventually negative perceptions involving and being put upon the unfettered essence of nature. In other words, Nature probably has never really known or cared that a natural bunker should be perceived of as penal or that a natural tableland (original natural green sites) should be a "safe" area!

And just so no one takes Behr the wrong way (as obviously Rich is inclined to do) it's ultimately important to know that Behr was not advocating removing the rules of golf completely nor was he advocating playing the game on courses that were actually limitless or without any boundaries.

He was only saying that the architect should do his very best to make the golfer feel like that's how it is. In an architectural context this is nothing more than the architect hiding his designing and constructing hand to an amazing extent. The reason for this was no more than an attempt to make a golfer feel more at one with Nature--as that would then reestabish that fundamental relationship with Nature better that he believed was the basis of "sport" and also one of the fundamental relationships in life itself (man's fundamental relationship with Nature)!

[Robert_Walker]

Golf is a game well played by athletes.