[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Interesting that at No. 15, The Ocean Course is only the 6th best Dye course on the list...

1. Sand Hills Golf Club (p)
Mullen, Neb.

2. Pacific Dunes (r)
Bandon, Ore.

3. Whistling Straits (r)
Mosel, Wis.

4. Bandon Dunes (r)
Bandon, Ore.

5. Pete Dye Golf Club (p)
Bridgeport, W.Va.

6. Shadow Creek Golf Club (d)
North Las Vegas, Nev.

7. Muirfield Village Golf Club (p)
Dublin, Ohio

8. The Golf Club (p)
New Albany, Ohio

9. Honors Course (p)
Ooltewah, Tenn.

10. Kinloch Golf Club (p)
Manakin-Sabot, Va.

11. Spyglass Hill Golf Course (r)
Monterey, Calif.

12. Wade Hampton Club (p)
Cashiers, N.C.

13. TPC at Sawgrass (Stadium Course) (r)
Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.

14. The Golf Club at Cuscowilla (p)
Greensboro, Ga.

15. Ocean Course at Kiawah Island (r)  
Kiawah Island, S.C.

16. Wolf Run Golf Club (p)
Zionsville, Ind.

17. Blackwolf Run Golf Club
(River Course) (r)

18. Wild Horse Golf Club (d)
Gothenburg, Neb.

19. World Woods Golf Club
(Pine Barrens Course) (d)
Brooksville, Fla.

20. Harbour Town Golf Links (r)
Hilton Head Island, S.C.

21. The Rim (p)
Payson, Ariz.

22. Double Eagle Golf Club (p)
Galena, Ohio

23. Paa-Ko Ridge Golf Club (d)
Sandia Park, N.M.

24. Hawk’s Ridge Golf Club (p)
Ball Ground, Ga.

25. Black Diamond Ranch (Quarry Course) (p)
Lecanto, Fla.

26. Arcadia Bluffs (d)
Arcadia, Mich.

27. The Sanctuary (p)
Sedalia, Colo.

28. Karsten Creek Golf Club (d)
Stillwater, Okla.

29. Mayacama Golf Club (p)
Santa Rosa, Calif.

30. Forest Highlands Golf Club (Canyon Course) (p)
Flagstaff, Ariz.

31. Desert Forest Golf Club (p)
Carefree, Ariz.

32. Cog Hill Golf Club (No. 4 - Dubsdread) (d)
Lemont, Ill.

33. Eugene Country Club (p)
Eugene, Ore.

34. Hazeltine National Golf Club (p)
Chaska, Minn.

35. Long Cove Golf Club (p)
Hilton Head Island, S.C.

36. Estancia (p)
Scottsdale, Ariz.

37. Castle Pines Golf Club (p)
Castle Rock, Colo.

38. Victoria National Golf Club (p)
Newburgh, Ind.

39. Princeville Golf Club
(Prince Course) (r)
Kauai, Hawaii.

40. Atlantic Golf Club (p)
Bridgehampton, N.Y.

41. Olde Farm Golf Club (p)
Bristol, Va.

42. Musgrove Mill Golf Club (p)
Clinton, S.C.

43. Galloway National Golf Club (p)
Galloway, Township, N.J.

44. Kapalua Golf Club
(Plantation Course) (r)
Maui, Hawaii

45. Quintero Golf Club (p)
Peoria, Ariz.

46. Crooked Stick Golf Club (p)
Carmel, Ind.

47. Bear’s Club (p)
North Palm Beach, Fla.

48. Lost Dunes Golf Club (p)
Bridgman, Mich.

49. Shoal Creek Golf Course (p)
Birmingham, Ala.

50. Stonewall Golf Club (p)
Elverson, Pa.

51. Old Tabby Links (p)
Spring Island, S.C.

52. Ocean Forest Golf Club (p)
Sea Island, Ga.

53. Longaberger Golf Club (d)
Nashport, Ohio

54. Raven Course at Snowshoe Mountain (r)
Snowshoe, W. Va.

55. Jupiter Hills Golf Club
(Hills Course) (p)
Jupiter, Fla.

56. Kingsley Club (p)
Traverse City, Mich.

57. Links of North Dakota at Red Mike Resort (d)
Williston, N.D.

58. Kiawah Island Club (Cassique) (p)*  
Kiawah Island, S.C.

59. Secession Golf Club (p)
Beaufort, S.C.

60. Valhalla Golf Club (p)
Louisville, Ky.

61. Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club
(Witch Hollow Course) (p)
North Plains, Ore.

62. The Mirabel Club (p)*
Scottsdale, Ariz.

63. Calusa Pines Golf Club (p)*
Naples, Fla.

64. Crosswater at Sunriver (p)
Sunriver, Ore.

65. The Powder Horn (d)
Sheridan, Wyo.

66. Flint Hills National Golf Club (p)*
Wichita, Kan.

67. Forest Creek Golf Club (p)
Southern Pines, N.C.

68. The Stone Canyon Club (p)*
Oro Valley, Ariz.

69. Mauna Kea Beach Golf Course (r)
South Kohole, Hawaii

70. Hawktree Golf Club (d)
Bismarck, N.D.

71. Barton Creek Country Club (Canyons Course) (r)
Austin, Texas

72. Robert Trent Jones International Golf Club (p)
Manassas, Va.

73. Grandfather Golf & Country Club (p)
Linville, N.C.

74. Chechessee Creek Club (p)
Bluffton, S.C.

75. Huntsville Golf Club (p)
Wilkes-Barre, Pa.

76. Caledonia Golf & Fish Club (d)
Pawleys Island, SC

77. Sahalee Country Club (North/South Course) (p)
Redmond, Wash.

78. Lake Las Vegas Golf Club (SouthShore Course) (p)
Henderson, Nev.

79. Challenge at Manele Bay (r)
Lanai, Hawaii

80. The Gallery (p)
Tucson, Ariz.

81. Old Memorial (p)
Tampa, Fla.

82. The Farm Golf Club (p)
Rocky Face, Ga.

83. Bulle Rock Golf Course (d)
Havre de Grace, Md.

84. Harvester Golf Club (d)*
Rhodes, Iowa

85. Crown Colony Country Club (p)*
Lufkin, Texas

86. Tullymore Golf Club (d)*
Stanwood, Mich.

87. PGA West Golf Club
(Stadium Course) (r)
La Quinta, Calif.

88. John’s Island Club (West Course) (p)
Vero Beach, Fla.

89. Bellerive Country Club (p)
St. Louis

90. Firestone Country Club
(North Course) (p)
Akron, Ohio

91. Irish Course (r)*
Mosel, Wis.

92. Troon Golf & Country Club (p)
Scottsdale, Ariz.

93. Caves Valley Golf Club (p)
Owings Mill, Md.

94. Barona Creek Golf Course (d)
Lakeside, Calif.

95. Pine Tree Golf Club (p)
Boynton Beach, Fla.

96. Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club
(Ghost Creek Course) (d)
North Plains, Ore.

97. Black Creek Club (p)*
Chattanooga, Tenn.

98. Wolf Creek Golf Club (d)*
Mesquite, Nev.

99. Quarry LaQuinta (p)
LaQuinta, Calif.

100. World Woods Golf Club
(Rolling Oaks Course) (d)
Brooksville, Fla.

[THuckaby2]

OK, I'll be the first to ask:

Where is Rustic Canyon?  Given the huge praise - at least publicly - by every GW rater I've read here or talked to, I was really expecting a top50 appearance.... interesting....

Numbers 18 and 94 make my heart sing!  Number 98 must have Matt Ward smiling....

I am so happy for the folks in Gothenburg, NE... if ever there was a deserving bunch, they are it.  I know, these rankings shouldn't matter and should be just for conversation, but hell, if this helps them in any way... well... to me that's just great.

Beyond that, another damn fine list.

TH

ps - I'm pretty damn pleased about #1, 2, 4 also!  6 seems right...

[J_Olsen]

This list is unmitigated garbage. The raters for this magazine don't know what they are looking at and Klein adjusts all the numbers anyway. There are so many mediocre courses on this list it is astounding.

Too HIGH: World Woods Pine Barrens. Black Diamond. Sanctuary (not in the top 1000). Mayacama. Firestone. Atlantic. Secession.

Too LOW: The Golf Club. Desert Forest. Kapalua. Old Memorial. Bulle Rock.

And...East Lake is NOT a Classical Course. Donald Ross has left the building.

[ChasLawler]

I've never played it, but I thought Caves Valley would be a little higher than #93.

[Curious George]

How does one get their golf course on the cover of the Top 100 issue? Do these cover courses have anything in common?

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I believe Cassique got the cover because it was the highest rated debuting course at 58th Modern.  While it's not one of ours, it is on Kiawah so we're pretty happy...

Plus, we appreciate the way The Ocean Couse has moved in the last few years...

2003 -- 15th
2002 -- 22nd
2001 -- 36th
2000 -- 56th

To all of you GW raters out there, thanks!

[J_Olsen]

...and the Bear's Club should be 447, not 47. Calusa Pines is on similar property and is SO much more well conceived and carried out. How anyone with half a brain about architecture could reverse their positions is absurd.

[NAF]

The Kingsley Club is still way undervalued even at #56..More people have to tramp to Michigan to see this.  Everybit as good as Cuscowilla or Wild Horse.  I know it moved from the high 90s but this baby's still got room to run.

[ForkaB]

Applebrook?

[corey miller]

Not my favorite course but Stanwich not in top 100 modern???  Too high in golf digest and looks like too low here.

Seems to me the rankings do not mean too much for me as perhaps they are a little too influenced by who plays where.

The golfweek raters I know do know their stuff so for me it would be much more instructive to see their individual rankings rather than the whole compilation.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Interesting tidbits:

Lester George's Kinloch at #10.  Congrats, Lester!  (He has contributed here a few times)

Wild Horse's big jump to #18 (from where, I don't remember, but it was a bit lower, I believe).

Paa-Ko-Ridge's moves way up to #23.

Recently 'public' Hawk's Ridge at #24.

I didn't know that Atlantic had a Rees' Pieces removal from behind greens done recently.  Hmmm.... it moved up significantly afterward....

Kapalua Plantation at #44?

Doak's Beechtree falls off the list.  A travesty, IMO.  Apache Stronghold hand-removed from list on purpose due to grassing problems.

Kingsley Club at #56?

Arizona has no public courses on either Modern nor Classical list.

Neither does NJ.

Bay Harbor not on list any more.  From what I've heard, that's a good thing.

Pinon Hills is nowhere to be found.  Maybe too much watering, Adam?  

A little surprised Tidewater in MB isn't here (not that I'd put it there).

Same with Royal New Kent.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Mike V,

I was thinking that Kinloch and Paa-Ko Ridge debuted on this list (higher).  I don't have the old list to check.

[JohnV]

Sean,

Kinloch was 23rd last year

Paa-Ko Ridge was 69th last year

Both good moves, but not debuts.

[THuckaby2]

Good call, Rich - where oh where is our much-loved Applebrook?

Perhaps just as we speculated re other magazines, not enough people saw it?

BTW, I am still in awe at WildHorse at #18.  That has now got to be the undisputed "bang for your buck" champion of the world.  Of course those who've been there knew this already... maybe this "acclaim" will cause even more folks to make the trek....

TH

[guest3]

I love the Ocean course, but I think the latest rankings
show that schmoozing is important too. How many spots did it jump since the big get together?

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

It actually jump quite a bit less than it had in past years as it's probably finding it's proper nitch in the rankings (although I'm still hoping for a top 10...

2003 -- 15th  (7 spots)
2002 -- 22nd (14 spots)
2001 -- 36th (20 spots)
2000 -- 56th ...

Keep in mind that the course had gone through some Dye tinkering before the Rater's Cup so they were seeing some new stuff on #2, #4 and #18 that they seemed to like.  And, we might have lost some points as they greens had not totally grown in (especially on #14) so conditions weren't the best.

[A_Clay_Man]

Pinon was nowhere to be found last year too.

Since this is my first time scrutinizing any list I do think that the number of panelists that visit a place is where the numbers may be askew. But, since it's subjective there is no right or wrong, as that jolson vehemetly expoused.

The other thing that just jumps off the page at me is the clear and undeniable trend that courses built with the ability to play the game multi-dimensionally are leading the pack. This, if it continues, is the best argument for course to lighten up on the water and hopefully will be an end to the Augusta syndrome. Maybe we should all thank TF for being the catalyst to this change, should it come about even more.

Also, I think if anyone did fudge the numbers as jolson accuses, the list wouldn't look like that.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Are Whistling Straits and Pete Dye better than The Golf Club and Kiawah?

Kinloch is in very good company--I don't know much about the course, any infromation would be appreciated?

[John_Conley]

This list is unmitigated garbage. The raters for this magazine don't know what they are looking at and Klein adjusts all the numbers anyway. There are so many mediocre courses on this list it is astounding.

Amazing.  You think because a list - albeit one compiled with an amalgamation of 200 viewpoints - doesn't match your opinion it is garbage?

Realize that adding you to the panel and tallying your votes wouldn't really change things much.

It is fine to disagree with the relative placement of this course or that course.  All magazine panelists for GOLF, Golf Digest, and Golfweek invariably do.  

Why don't you just make your own list for personal use?  Surely that won't be garbage.  

I've never really understood the "too high"/"too low" comments.  Do you realize the difference between #35 and #65 is almost imperceptible?  

As for any claim that I don't know what I'm looking at... guilty as charged.  Can't speak for any of my peers.

[THuckaby2]

"I've never really understood the "too high"/"too low" comments.  Do you realize the difference between #35 and #65 is almost imperceptible? "

Well said, JC.  That's what I was trying to get at above also.  it's just human nature to notice things that don't seem "right", but it also just makes sense not to get "bent out of shape" about it, as shivas realized and I did too, just because the differences are so imperceptible.

TH

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I don't know how they work the numbers at Golfweek, but the difference in numbers in the last Golf Digest rankings is amazing.  We scored 57.59 and placed 67th.  Add just two points here and there and we would have come in at 42nd.  As Ron Whitten says, "Just making the list is impressive.  Don't get hung up on where you sit on the list."  But, easier said than done!

[John_Conley]

Calusa Pines 63
Bear Club 47

Reversing them, as instructed by Jimmy Olsen, changes nothing.  What is that Psych term - JND?  Just noticeable difference?

[Jim_H]

I don't have my Golfweek yet--what were the best new courses?

[guest]

Interesting that at No. 15, The Ocean Course is only the 6th best Dye course on the list...

That reflects more on Dye than on TheOceanCourse, n'est-ce pas?

[ChasLawler]

Scott - I noticed you mentioned Royal New Kent as not being on the list.

3 or 4 years ago it belonged, but the new owners have done a very poor job of maintaining it. Since it's introduction in 96?, it has steadily gone downhill every year. I played it this past fall, and was truly appalled at the state it was in. The greens were overgrown and slow, the fairways were patchy, and not one bunker had been raked in at least a month.

With some real good TLC, someone could save it, but it's location is so bad, I just don't think it would ever make fiscal sense. We were out there on a sunny, 70 degree Saturday in October, and there were only about 10 cars in the parking lot. We never saw another group on the course.

IMO, the fact that it is 100% unwalkable has always taken away from it's luster as well.

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