Sacred Cows

« **Reply #75 on:** July 13, 2006, 10:38:03 AM »

i guess the sacred cows of this site must be extremely sacred because nobody wants to comment on them. except for matt c

« **Reply #76 on:** July 13, 2006, 10:48:00 AM »

Quote from: Michael Moore on July 13, 2006, 09:50:56 AM

Courses that don't allow cameras.

Courses that enforce privacy laws regarding the dissemination of photos taken on private property.

Courses that have been ripped from "Courses by Country".

Are they sacred cows here, or are they sacred cows in their own estimation?
It seems ANGC is a sacred cow in their own estimation, but not here. (And, not even for certain famous members anymore!)

« **Reply #77 on:** July 13, 2006, 10:52:06 AM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on July 12, 2006, 07:53:47 PM

Quote from: Jordan Wall on July 12, 2006, 06:43:23 PM
Sheep Ranch

Jordan,

I've said this before and I've been to Bandon and have zero interest in seeing the Sheep Ranch. I am delighted to hear that it has become an overpriced tourist trap and take comfort that I will never go...The thought of playing a routing off the top of the head of some amateur architect pukens me...

John,

Play Sheep Ranch and then tell me if you still feel the same way. Yes, they're charging $90 to play and have a suggested routing, but "overpriced tourist trap"--hardly. I put it in the top 5 or 6 courses I've played (even with hairy greens) and spent one of the best afternoons of my life out there. It's a special place.

« **Reply #78 on:** July 13, 2006, 11:50:47 AM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 12, 2006, 11:19:26 PM

Anthony:

Actually, the working name for our next new course is "Wicked Pony".

I just build them, I don't name them!

Maybe you should

« **Reply #79 on:** July 13, 2006, 11:58:21 AM »

Wow, after Gene's post, I think we can take Tom Doak's name off the sacred cow list.

« **Reply #80 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:08:13 PM »

Quote from: Gene Greco on July 13, 2006, 11:25:29 AM

The irony of this thread you have posted is that it is YOU who is the Sacred Cow.

Gene, I don't know if your being serious or not, but based on a number of previous threads, Tom Doak's designs are not 'sacred cows'. They are popular with the majority of this group, but there have been numerous criticisms about elements of some of his courses. You have done so yourself, and shouldn't get upset if you're politely challenged on your views.

I think Tom's question shows an element of frustration, and in answer to him, nothing in terms of golf design should be considered a 'sacred cow', including both Sand Hills & Fishers Island.

« **Reply #81 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:18:14 PM »

Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on July 13, 2006, 09:36:58 AM

Quote from: Anthony Butler on July 13, 2006, 09:11:31 AM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 12, 2006, 11:19:26 PM
Anthony:

Actually, the working name for our next new course is "Wicked Pony".

I just build them, I don't name them!

What the .....? Since when did people start naming golf courses after strip clubs...

My first ever solo project in 1984 - rebuilding a defunct Dick Wilson course in Las Vegas named Winterwood - was re-named "Desert Rose" which was also the name of a local brothel.

One of my earliest discussions on this board about five years ago was whether or not gca's named the courses they designed, with the poster "aghast" that I didn't control everything. My reply was that "the next course I name will be the first course I name."

That said, I have been on a roll lately, with both the Quarry and the two Wilderness(es) being named after my suggestions. The only problem is, those names don't translate well to shirt logos, with the text being about it, whereas I see some real possibilities with a "wicked pony" logo.

I'm seeing a topless woman waving her cowboy... (sorry, golf hat) around her head as she rides a bucking bronco. She may not be a hooker, but she definitely doesn't slice it! Salem Country Club is still top of my 'crazy woman' logos, but this has potential...

« **Reply #82 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:32:44 PM »

There should not be any sacred cows other than the logo for Stonewall of course. However, It seems whether it be my comment in comparison of the sites, not the golf courses, at Sand Hills to Ballyneal to the others mentioned herein people do get all fired up. This site is about discussion and opinions. No one should get mad at anyone for good healthy normal thoughts, questions and discussions about any course.

« **Reply #83 on:** July 13, 2006, 01:53:55 PM »

200 years from now, the Salem logo will still be top 5!!!

« **Reply #84 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:07:59 PM »

Well Gene, it looks like you deleted your post--probably a good thing. You twisted Tom Doak's point about Sand Hills having smaller undulations than Ballyneal into an accusation that Sand Hills was "flat," then asserted that Doak was disparaging Sand Hills to promote his own course. And to think that it's been suggested that some people are overly sensitive about certain courses. I don't know what Tom Doak's or any other architect's motives are in sharing opinions here, but let's give people credit and assume positive intent.

« **Reply #85 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:42:12 PM »

Tim:

I'm not going back down that road with you or anyone else.

In all this Ballyneal was the unfortunate indirect recipient of unintended ill will. However, I'm confident Ballyneal will stand on its own with or without Tom's blessing. From all accounts, the land, passion of its founders and Tom have come together to create a masterpiece.

I am happy for the owners, Tom and all their lucky members.

« **Reply #86 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:47:28 PM »

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on July 13, 2006, 09:15:57 AM

Quote from: John Shimp on July 13, 2006, 08:55:21 AM
By architect:

Sacred MacKenzie
MacDonald/Raynor
C&C
Doak

Not quite Ross
sacred Tillinghast
Thomas (or does belong above?)
Hanse
Silva

Heathens Fazio!!
Rees
Nicklaus (or is he moving up?)

Lowest circle Arthur Hills
of hell Others?
AULT CLARK

Who else belongs where? Other categories? Who disagrees?

This is pretty damn close. I think you have Arthur Hills ranked a little too high though. Do Coore and Crenshaw need to do some more courses before they hang it up as Sacred?

« **Reply #87 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:49:26 PM »

How bout C&C?

« **Reply #88 on:** July 13, 2006, 03:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on July 13, 2006, 01:53:55 PM

200 years from now, the Salem logo will still be top 5!!!

On top of that, it reminds the members that they need to pick up some things for the wife on the way home from the club...

BTW-maybe not sacred cow status, but I believe that Salem and Essex are both better courses than TCC. At least the clyde/squirrel nine configuration most commonly played. TCC's ranking inside the world's Top 50 is almost entirely supported by the historic events that have taken place on its grounds. The quickest way to get a major tournament back there would be to yank it out of the Top 100.

« **Reply #89 on:** July 13, 2006, 04:08:04 PM »

The Sacred Cow thread from three years ago:

Don't criticise their bloody golf courses...

« **Reply #90 on:** July 13, 2006, 04:25:46 PM »

Quote from: Bogey_Hendren on July 13, 2006, 10:05:09 AM

Jeff,

Yet another name change at your course in Nashville: Gaylord Springs Golf Links.

Mike
A Linkster

I heard they're building a new course next door to this one: Gaylord Focker Golf Links.

« **Reply #91 on:** July 13, 2006, 04:26:58 PM »

Kevin: I'm gonna drive east and personally lob eggs at your house if your digging up of that thread causes me to have to re-explain my point in that one again.

That one was SUPPOSED to be about sacred cows, but I somehow missed the point completely and then got put on trial for it. I recall all of that pretty well and it was not fun. So if any of you read that thread for examples, well... just disregard my posts, OK?

« **Reply #92 on:** July 13, 2006, 04:55:14 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 13, 2006, 04:26:58 PM

Kevin: I'm gonna drive east and personally lob eggs at your house if your digging up of that thread causes me to have to re-explain my point in that one again.

I'll issue my second apology

(see post #64 in that thread...I must have been the one to knock someone in another thread for kissing and telling after an invitation to play a course).

« **Reply #93 on:** July 13, 2006, 04:57:01 PM »

Kevin - you remain absolved. But watch our for eggs nevertheless.

« **Reply #94 on:** July 13, 2006, 07:06:51 PM »

Getting back to Tom's original idea, the folks who would impose a GCA orthodoxy seem to be outnumbered by those who prefer to express their own opinions.

Having said that, it's become distressingly clear that a lot of posters may censure or calibrate their views so as not to piss off the folks who can get them onto the courses they want to play.

Let me take the lead on this:

I will accept no invitation to play or to join NGLA
Please do not ask me to join you at Cypress Point
Fisher's Island is out of the question, as is Pine Valley

Augusta National .. we'll talk.

Yours for unbridled discourse,

Gary

« **Reply #95 on:** July 13, 2006, 07:20:51 PM »

Quote from: Gary Daughters on July 13, 2006, 07:06:51 PM

I will accept no invitation to play or to join NGLA
Please do not ask me to join you at Cypress Point
Fisher's Island is out of the question, as is Pine Valley

Augusta National .. we'll talk.

Yours for unbridled discourse,

Gary

Gary, care to elaborate on this? Some serious sacred cow there....

« **Reply #96 on:** July 13, 2006, 07:51:12 PM »

James,

Not the first cows I've tipped

« **Reply #97 on:** July 14, 2006, 12:46:03 AM »

As Charles Blair MacDonld said, every hole and every idea has room for improvement. A sacred cow occurs when people blindly defend a course or architect as perfect.

(For example) While I greatly admire the work of Coore and Crenshaw, not all the work is perfect, but there are lots of people here who think everything they do is. It doesn't lead to good dicussion of the subject.

I once questioned whether a particular greens at Friar's Head may be over contoured and I was asked if I still possessed testicles.

« **Reply #98 on:** July 14, 2006, 12:51:22 AM »

Gary,

What course would make you put on your lipstick and rouge to play?

From what I read on GCA there seems to be a surfeit of inquiries about "What's available in Peoria of merit." Or some such banality, when the real question is, can you arrange for me to play the Chicago G.C.

Bob

« **Reply #99 on:** July 14, 2006, 07:38:10 AM »

Bob,

Funny that you of all people should send a snarky response that either misses or ignores the point of my post.

Why "you of all people?" Because some weeks back I received an IM from a well-meaning person I am not acquainted with warning not to piss off Bob Huntley. Something about Bob being a very powerful guy.

Just for old time's sake, and just in case you missed it, here's the salient part of my post.

".. it's become distressingly clear that a lot of posters may censure or calibrate their views so as not to piss off the folks who can get them onto the courses they want to play."

Since you seemed a little slow on the uptake, Bob, I'll go ahead and spell it out for you: our discourse on this board might be more useful were people not afraid to cross "sacred cows" like you.

And Bob.. I'm not sorry for having taken an innocent swipe at your pal Bill Murray, which is why you seem to have your panties in a wad.

Gary

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