Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..

« **Reply #75 on:** January 08, 2006, 02:40:42 PM »

Wooooooh, hold on a sec...

...look closely, at the Plantation, dad was wearing golf shoes, not sandals...after all that complaining

« **Reply #76 on:** January 08, 2006, 03:05:01 PM »

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on January 08, 2006, 01:03:25 PM

Quote from: Adam Clayman on January 08, 2006, 12:22:12 PM

Yours is the argument of the extremes, predisposing the viewer to the choice of the lesser of two evils.

Pat, You appear to be so isolated in your circle that you fail to realize that your position is the extreme.

Then you characterize my position, in your argument, by having dinner next to a guy who smells badly. Now that is an extreme.

My point is; When I watch the Donald, a man you would support for public office because he has the dough, has to plead with his golfing cronies, on national television, not to cheat, goes to show the mutual exclusivity of being a gentleman and looking like one. There is a difference.

Just ask Dan King over for a round, and tell him there's no dress code.

Jordan, You must've mis-read me to say adam adam adam... Because I was attacking those who assume the sandals are inappropriate attire.
BTW, I just assumed everyone assumed you were the guy in the golf shoes. When I could tell otherwise. Bite sandals are a real treat to golf in.

« **Reply #77 on:** January 08, 2006, 03:25:53 PM »

Adam, I meant it as a joke to light up the situation

I was the guy in the golf shoes, too

« **Reply #78 on:** January 08, 2006, 03:54:27 PM »

Mr. Clayman

Please modify or delete your post using the term "dago". It is offensive. then again, maybe you don't care.

« **Reply #79 on:** January 08, 2006, 04:31:20 PM »

Quote from: Adam Clayman on January 08, 2006, 03:05:01 PM

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on January 08, 2006, 01:03:25 PM
Quote from: Adam Clayman on January 08, 2006, 12:22:12 PM

Yours is the argument of the extremes, predisposing the viewer to the choice of the lesser of two evils.

Pat, You appear to be so isolated in your circle that you fail to realize that your position is the extreme.

Then you characterize my position, in your argument, by having dinner next to a guy who smells badly. Now that is an extreme.

You don't know a thing about MY circle, nor the extend of my life's experiences with people.

My position isn't extreme in the least.
You were the one who described the golfer as wearing a tee shirt that afforded minimal coverage.
And now you claim it's unreasonable or extreme for me to have dinner with him after the round ?
You can't have it both ways.[/color]

My point is; When I watch the Donald, a man you would support for public office because he has the dough,

That's a blatant lie.
I never said that I supported Donald Trump for public office.
I said that I trusted the Rockefeller's, Kennedy's, Brown, Bloomberg and Corzine in that they weren't in politics for the money, and that I liked candidates with extreme wealth because they weren't running for office to line their pockets at the expense of the electorate.

I went on to say that I didn't necessarily agree with any or all of their poliitics, but that I admired their dedication to public service.

For you to twist my comments to falsely represent my position is disengenuous on your part[/color]

has to plead with his golfing cronies, on national television, not to cheat, goes to show the mutual exclusivity of being a gentleman and looking like one. There is a difference.

Who said he was a gentleman ?
Could you provide any citation to that effect ?[/color]

Just ask Dan King over for a round, and tell him there's no dress code.

I'd be happy to invite Dan King over for a round, I find him bright, unconventional, iconoclastic, caustic, witty, irreverant, a fun guy, and I happen to like Hawaiian shirts in the right environment, but, if he's playing at a club at which I'm a member, I'm responsible for my guests, and that includes their dress, and as such, I'd provide him with the clubs rules in advance. If we both abide by them I'm sure that we'll have a great day.

Do you have reason to believe he wouldn't ?[/color]

« **Reply #80 on:** January 08, 2006, 04:34:50 PM »

John Kavanaugh writes:
I have already admitted I was wrong and now I will apologize. I am sorry Jordan, I am out of line thinking children should be held to the same standards as adults.

You have failed to say why your standards should apply to either adults or children. The bizarre notion of "leading critics of the game" should use your standards of appropriate attire doesn't work for me.

Kapalua states on their web site that "Proper golf attire is required" and you clearly met that standard.

Cool.

At Norwood Hills the membership guide specifically says that players will have their shirt tucked in...If you meet me in St. Louis we will play somewhere else...It is just a rule I agreed to when I joined, that's all. I have to admit I joined without ever reading the book, I guess I'm stuck.

I'm kind of curious why you are responding to something other than my words.

I've said more than once, going to a private course I have no problem abiding by their dress code or my host's taste. On a public or resort course, where I pay my green fee, I will dress comfortable, and according to my tastes. If the public or resort course has a dress code it will be one of the considerations I will make prior to paying my greens fee.

HamiltonBHearst writes:
Please modify or delete your post using the term "dago". It is offensive.

Offensive to whom? I'm guessing from the name Hamilton B. Hearst you wouldn't have much Italian, Spanish or Portuguese in you. But you never know. The name King lacks the sound of the Mediterranean, but then you wouldn't know my Mom's maiden name is Barberini.

Knowing and growing up around a lot of Italians, I think it has been many years since anybody I know took affront to the title dago.

Dan King

Quote

This is another thing I like about golf, the exclusiveness. Of course most country clubs exclude the wrong kinds of people, such as me. But I hold out the hope that somewhere there's a club which bans first wives, people in twelve-step programs, Sting, the editorial board of the Boston Globe, and Ross Perot.
--P.J. O'Rourke (Men's Journal, 1992)

« **Reply #81 on:** January 08, 2006, 04:52:15 PM »

Dan King,

Maybe where you live, but in greater NYC and other areas it's not viewed as a term of endearment.

I wouldn't recommend that Adam use the term outside of rural America.

It's offensive.

« **Reply #82 on:** January 08, 2006, 05:10:52 PM »

Patrick Mucci writes:
I'd be happy to invite Dan King over for a round, I find him bright, unconventional, iconoclastic, caustic, witty, irreverant, a fun guy, and I happen to like Hawaiian shirts in the right environment, but, if he's playing at a club at which I'm a member, I'm responsible for my guests, and that includes their dress, and as such, I'd provide him with the clubs rules in advance. If we both abide by them I'm sure that we'll have a great day.

And I have long looked forward to someday playing a round of golf with you -- but jeez did you have to make me blush so?

You have no need to worry about my attire as your guest. I will make sure I dress appropriately and am well groomed, if still a bit on the shaggy side.

I've decided just about every golfer I've ever played with looks a bit too casual on the course. I think we should all strive to look more like William Inglis (though it does look like he has a shirt button missing.)

Or perhaps we could go a little more casual than that:

Maybe where you live, but in greater NYC and other areas it's not viewed as a term of endearment.

Live and learn. I guess I need to get out more.

Dan King

Quote

I don't care to join and club that's prepared to have me as a member.
--Groucho Marx

« **Reply #83 on:** January 08, 2006, 05:23:42 PM »

Don't worry Jordan...when Jaka departed from the site he learned how to appreciate dress codes much more than before. Now, he doesn't like any color that might look like jeans, no matter how stylish the threads are. Also, last winter Jaka asked for permission to be a slob at the worst golf course on Earth...we granted it of course...

« **Reply #84 on:** January 08, 2006, 05:37:13 PM »

Very good Mr. King you can be the arbitor of what is offensive. I suspect you checked but American Heritage dictionary says "dago"is

offensive slang-used as a disparaging term for an Italian, Spaniard, or portuguese.

Please let me know what other offensive slang terms are OK to use? I suspect many on this site would be upset with some non-offensive (according to American Heritage dictionary) terms if they were directed at certain groups.

« **Reply #85 on:** January 08, 2006, 05:47:50 PM »

HamiltonBHearst writes:
Very good Mr. King you can be the arbitor of what is offensive.

Because I asked a question?

By the way, I'd rather not be called Mr. King. That was my Dad. You can call me Dan.

I suspect you checked but American Heritage dictionary says "dago"is offensive slang-used as a disparaging term for an Italian, Spaniard, or portuguese.

I think a former fiancee of mine whose family was from Portugal would take offense to your failure to capitalize Portuguese when you capitalized the other nationalities.

Often slang becomes part of standard vocabulary. My impression of dago was that it was offensive many years ago, not so now. Hence my question. Patrick has told me that isn't true in and around NYC.

Dan King

Quote

Slang is a language that rolls up its sleeves, spits on its hands, and goes to work.
--Carl Sandburg

« **Reply #86 on:** January 08, 2006, 06:00:59 PM »

Dan

The term should be offensive to all. I am not sure "offensive" slang ever becomes part of standard vocabulary but I may be wrong.

And if we are going to equate use of the term "dago" and any other offensive term with my failure to capitalize Portueguese, well we really are getting absurd but if that offends you I will modify my post, something Mr. Clayman still has not done.

I might add, rather than pick and choose where to use offensive language, I just don't use it.

« **Reply #87 on:** January 08, 2006, 06:20:05 PM »

HamiltonBHearst writes:
The term should be offensive to all.

Why? Part of my heritage is Italian, and depending on the context, I have absolutely no problem if someone calls me a dago.

I am not sure "offensive" slang ever becomes part of standard vocabulary but I may be wrong.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but much slang becomes less offensive as time goes by. At least where I live, there is no prejudice against people of Italian, Spanish or Portuguese heritage so the name lacks offensiveness. Back in years past where their were prejudices against these groups, it would have been offensive. I'm guessing from what Patrick says that the groups still face some prejudices in and around NYC, so therefore the word can be offensive.

And if we are going to equate use of the term "dago" and any other offensive term with my failure to capitalize Portueguese, well we really are getting absurd but if that offends you I will modify my post, something Mr. Clayman still has not done.

I didn't say it would offend me, but it would offend an ex-fiancee.

Are you now making yourself the arbitrator of what is offensive? You are offended by the term dago but then you belittle my ex-fiancee's feelings when it comes to giving her nationality the same respect as Spaniards and Italians. I don't get the difference?

I might add, rather than pick and choose where to use offensive language, I just don't use it.

I generally avoid it also. But then it also takes a lot to offend me.

Dan King

Quote

Would you convey my compliments to the purist who reads your proofs and tell him or her that I write in a sort of broken-down patois which is something like the way a Swiss waiter talks, and that when I split an infinitive, God damn it, I split it so it will stay split, and when I interrupt the velvety smoothness of my more or less literate syntax with a few sudden words of bar-room vernacular, that is done with the eyes wide open and the mind relaxed but attentive.
--Raymond Chandler

« **Reply #88 on:** January 08, 2006, 06:38:59 PM »

Dan

If you feel you want to use the term go ahead. I suppose in your world I can now use offensive terms based on my perception of how much they are discriminated against.

Are black people or jewish people or hispanic people discriminated against in all parts of the country. Let me know, I am sure I can dream up a lot of offensive and descriptive terms which would be okay I am sure.

« **Reply #89 on:** January 08, 2006, 06:56:54 PM »

HamiltonBHearst writes:
Are black people or jewish people or hispanic people discriminated against in all parts of the country. Let me know, I am sure I can dream up a lot of offensive and descriptive terms which would be okay I am sure.

In these discussions it works much better of you respond to what I write rather than some strawmen you make up as you go.

I asked who was offended my the term dago. You took offense to my question rather than answering it. Patrick answered my question. I said it was a lesson learned and I need to get out more.

Note: Now that I have found out there are people offended by the term dago I agree it is offensive. Notice someone has to be offended for the word to be offensive. Your response was everyone should be offended. Since despite my Italian heritage I am not offended by the term, I discounted your opinion that for some reason I should be.

No need to dream up offensive terms for black people or jewish people or hispanic people. There are already plenty. I have a book on my shelves called Slang and Euphemism by Richard A. Spears. Plenty of offensive words in there.

I'm still curious why my ex-fiancee should be less offended by your belittling her heritage while I should be offended by the term dago.

Dan King

Quote

Reporter: Rock, you got anything derogatory to say about the champ?
Rocky Balboa: Derogatory? Yeah. He's great.

« **Reply #90 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:08:41 PM »

I did not belittle anyone's heritage. I neglected to capitalize a letter. OK Dan king. If you think what I did and what Mr. clayman did that is fine and it says a lot about you.

« **Reply #91 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:20:16 PM »

HamiltonBHearst writes:
I did not belittle anyone's heritage. I neglected to capitalize a letter.

This is the first time I heard it was accidental. I guess admitting that is close to being an apology.

OK Dan king

Leaving the k in lower case... accidental or intentional?

If you think what I did and what Mr. clayman did that is fine and it says a lot about you.

Please quote where I said either was fine.

Dan King

Quote

Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain.
--Lily Tomlin

« **Reply #92 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:38:24 PM »

Dan king

My failure to capitalize King was intentional.

You win. You are correct. Next time I will find a Italian or Spaniard or Portuguese person to be offended.

There is nothing wrong with the term. I was just goofing. Keep using it.

« **Reply #93 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:01:05 PM »

I went and modified my post as requested bty Hammy in a private Im. Now I see it wasnt timely enough for mr . Hearst. and has gone ahead and been truely insulting. F2F so to speak

For the record, I used the term ^%*-T, which is a specific esoteric reference I think ANY sensible person would realize what i was talking about

Hammy must be unreasonable, insensible, or Pat, in cogneto.

BTW, I have counted the number of times hammy (are there any smaller letters?) has used the word he's now spent the better part of a page arguing about that I used (which I didnt use alone the way he has).

« **Reply #94 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:41:38 PM »

Quote from: Adam Clayman on January 08, 2006, 08:01:05 PM

Hammy must be unreasonable, unsensible or Pat in cogneto.

I think the fallacy of MacWood's theory was exposed during my trip to Wild Horse and Sand Hills last June, thus depriving me of a pay day that I was looking forward to. [/color]

« **Reply #95 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:47:09 PM »

HamiltonBHearst writes:
There is nothing wrong with the term. I was just goofing. Keep using it.

Strawman alert. Please quote were I ever used it.

Dan King

Quote

An injury is much sooner forgotten than an insult.
--Lord Chesterfield

« **Reply #96 on:** January 08, 2006, 09:23:07 PM »

Quote from: Pete Buczkowski on January 08, 2006, 05:23:42 PM

Don't worry Jordan...when Jaka departed from the site he learned how to appreciate dress codes much more than before. Now, he doesn't like any color that might look like jeans, no matter how stylish the threads are. Also, last winter Jaka asked for permission to be a slob at the worst golf course on Earth...we granted it of course...

Pete,

As I am sure you are aware I have taken proper steps to lose weight...I hated being a slob.

« **Reply #97 on:** January 08, 2006, 10:32:30 PM »

Is that John??

Nice coat

And your not fat...

...and that certainly does not look anything like the worst course in the world!!!

...what course is that anyway??

« **Reply #98 on:** January 08, 2006, 11:25:09 PM »

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on January 08, 2006, 04:31:20 PM

That's a blatant lie.
I never said that I supported Donald Trump for public office.
I said that I trusted the Rockefeller's, Kennedy's, Brown, Bloomberg and Corzine in that they weren't in politics for the money, and that I liked candidates with extreme wealth because they weren't running for office to line their pockets at the expense of the electorate.

I truthfully meant to write "apparently" aftert the word "would".

Patrick, Forgive me if I insulted you, when I used the tee shirt descripotion. I was under the impression the term was common jargon for the strap type tee shirt style.

Quote

dago T n. a ribbed, white cotton tank-style undershirt; a wife-beater; a boy-beater.

http://www.fictionwarehouse.com/yr01/011107.html

Quote

He looks at his watch. He is wearing a tee shirt-the kind with no sleeves that Philip and his brother Henry used to call Dago-T's because all the Italian kids in the neighborhood wore them. Except that George doesn't look like those Italian kids used to look: all olive-colored and smooth like metal with muscles that flexed when they got angry even if they weren't moving. George has hair like black fur on his forearms and his belly hangs out from his chest and over his pants so Philip can't see his waist-can't tell if he is wearing a belt to keep up his tan-colored, too-short pants. There is a coffee stain near the armpit of his shirt and a scar across his neck. This is the guy Kenny called ‘the best goddamned thief in the city.'

« **Reply #99 on:** January 09, 2006, 03:03:00 AM »

Quote from: Jordan Wall on January 08, 2006, 10:32:30 PM

Is that John??

Nice coat

And your not fat...

...and that certainly does not look anything like the worst course in the world!!!

...what course is that anyway??

Jordan,

That picture was taken about a year ago. Another picture of John Kavanaugh surfaced this summer. He's about half that size now. But can he still rip it?

Cordially,

the other JK

News:

Jordan Wall

A_Clay_Man

Jordan Wall

HamiltonBHearst

Patrick_Mucci

Dan King

Patrick_Mucci

Dan King

Pete Buczkowski

HamiltonBHearst

Dan King

HamiltonBHearst

Dan King

HamiltonBHearst

Dan King

HamiltonBHearst

Dan King

HamiltonBHearst

A_Clay_Man

Patrick_Mucci

Dan King

John Kavanaugh

Jordan Wall

A_Clay_Man

John Kirk