[THuckaby2]

JK:

Are you a rater?  I sincerely don't know one way or the other.  Just want to be sure how hypothetical this is.

Outside of that, this isn't my bag, I really don't care.  I'm getting kind of sick of talking about ratings and raters, to be honest.  It is SO not that big of a deal.... way too much time has been wasted on the subject already.  So I'll still be around to correct misconceptions, sure - because untruths on here are not fair.   But for hypotheticals, well... you've worn me out.  Others can take up the mantle here if they wish.

TH

[JakaB]

Huck,

Of course I am a rater....who isn't.  

[THuckaby2]

Good point.
 

I sincerely just didn't know for sure.

TH

[Michael Moore]

I'm getting kind of sick of talking about ratings and raters, to be honest.  It is SO not that big of a deal.... way too much time has been wasted on the subject already.

[Buck Wolter]

Huck,

I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks....staying at the Bellagio and not playing Shadow Creek because I just don't think it is that good....I wouldn't pay $150 to play it..has nothing to do with what I can afford..

I think we ought to Kavanaugh -  Kavanaugh.  I'll chip in $50 for John's round at Shadow Creek, how much do we have to raise before it's worth it to play? Don't forget it includes a limo ride easily worth $50 of cab fare. What if we get it down to VN's guest fee? I hate to see you miss the chance to play the highest rated Fazio course in the world -- If anyone on the planet should play Shadow Creek it should be you.

[THuckaby2]

Michael:  your comment?  Or are you just amazed I'd say that?

It is true.  Oh, it's tough for me to let misconceptions lie, given I am a part of the process.  But I'd be damn happy if the discussions of it in here would just go away.

TH

[JakaB]

When was the first time you played a course and one of your fellow golfers asked you what you think...that was when you were first a rater.   I don't think I have ever met a golfer who didn't rate courses..

Are you a rater....what an insulting question..

[JakaB]

Huck,

I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks....staying at the Bellagio and not playing Shadow Creek because I just don't think it is that good....I wouldn't pay $150 to play it..has nothing to do with what I can afford..

I think we ought to Kavanaugh -  Kavanaugh.  I'll chip in $50 for John's round at Shadow Creek, how much do we have to raise before it's worth it to play? Don't forget it includes a limo ride easily worth $50 of cab fare. What if we get it down to VN's guest fee? I hate to see you miss the chance to play the highest rated Fazio course in the world -- If anyone on the planet should play Shadow Creek it should be you.

Buck,

I used the $150 fee because that is the guest fee at VN....I'm leaving March 18th....so please send your checks to:

John Kavanaugh
P.O. Box 551
Lawrenceville, IL 62439

I will not cash a check until my round is complete and based on $500 looks like I need $350 to play...honestly, I would rather sit in a sports book watching March Madness....but for the good of golf I will play and submit a full report if the public demands it..

[Buck Wolter]

I'll put mine in the mail tonight.

[THuckaby2]

You guys are chumps.

As a rater, Kavanaugh can play this comped. All it takes is one phone call.  

AND..if he is going on the first March Madness weekend (the 2nd busiest weekend of the year in Vegas, 2nd only to the Super Bowl), he's not gonna get on one way or the other - not as a rater, not as a paying guest... it's damn near certain Shadow has been booked for that (outside of high-roller comps) for over a year.

BTW John, I too would much rather watch March Madness at a sports book than play Shadow... hell I'd rather do that than play ANY golf course... that is a life experience that simply must be done.  I did it once and I am still recovering.

TH

[John_Cullum]

I realize I am a cynical bastard, but I have come to the conclusion, based upon evidentiary review, that over 2/3s of magazine raters are just doing it for the comps.

Please note that this is not directed at any particular rater who posts here.

[THuckaby2]

JC:

There is absolutely no shame in being a cynical bastard.

On this point though, I'd have to disagree with you.  One would have to be pretty stupid to do ratings just for the comps.  The untold truth is - and shhhhh! I'm just telling you, keep it to yourself - we don't really get that many.  Damn.  I said it.  My secret decoder ring is gonna be revoked.

I'm not kidding about this.  Oh sure, comps CAN be obtained, at lots of great courses, if one tries really hard.  And most of us do get these, granted.

But we also pay at a lot of courses, and we also play a lot of courses that we might get comped at, but that we HAVE to play rather than we WANT to play.

The whole rating this is so over-rated... I just made a great little pun... jeez I wish all the cynics could actually do it for awhile so they'd see how silly all this criticism is.

TH

[John_Cullum]

TH

I have not changed my position based on your post.

There is a ton of free golf to be had if you play the rater card.

Also, are you saying that you are not comped at courses that are assigned to you? That would have to be very rare.

[THuckaby2]

JC:

I did not expect you to change your position.  Cynical bastards are rarely maleable.  My only expectation was to make you think.  I think that has been achieved.  

Typically we are comped at courses we are assigned to rate, yes.  But that's not the point.  At some of these, lots of guys would rather pay and play elsewhere than play the course in question for free... Especially those with limits on their time....

The whole rating thing remains re more cracked up in the minds of those who don't do it that it is in reality.

TH

[John_Cullum]

TH

I don't doubt for a minute that there is a price to pay for the rater privlege. You get assigned to play a few places you'd just as soon not. How bad can that be though. As you like to say, "I like em all."

[THuckaby2]

JC:

I am not saying it's a BAD DEAL - oh far from it, it's a lot of fun... but what I am saying is that one would have to be stupid to do it "only for the comps".  There's a bit more to it than that.

Now change that to "for access to courses they couldn't otherwise get on" and you might have something... Hell I don't like to judge other people, so it's not really for me to say... but my personal feeling is most guys are kidding themselves if they try to say that's not a reason why they want to be a rater.

BTW, note I left out the word "only" in that phrase.  Again if one does this ONLY for even that reason, it remains silly.  There are a lot of other reasons why one would want to do this.

TH

[JakaB]

I'll put mine in the mail tonight.

I told my wife about this and she was just a bit pissed that I would spend daylight time away from her....please be advised that as a rater of the people for the people I will not be seeking any comps on top of your generous offer.   I will also be renting clubs as this will end up being a subversive operation....like it will be the only one over the course of three days.  So, thank you and take comfort in my high travel and room costs....such is the burden of a rater..

[John_Cullum]

TH

All I am saying is that for 2/3s of the rater corps, the top 10 reasons to be a rater are:

1 free golf
2 free golf
3 free golf
4 free golf
5 access
6 free golf
7 access
8 access
9 ?
10 ?

And I dont think they know either, so you may as well put free golf down there too.

[THuckaby2]

JC:

Well then I'd have to just disagree, and I've tried to explain why.  Obviously I have failed.  That's ok.

I just do think anyone who has those for his top 10 reasons really isn't getting out of it what he wants!

TH

[John_Cullum]

TH

If he wasn't getting what he wanted out of the program, he wouldn't re-up year after year.

By the way, I am perfectly willing to accept that you fall in the other 1/3.

[JakaB]

John,

I really don't think you are being fair to the raters of the BBGE...they are in it partially for the cool bag tag and the accompanied status.   Of course that's all you got...

[THuckaby2]

Well if it is all about comps, then damn right I fall into the other third.  

And I still think access is as big or bigger reason here than comps.  Most raters aren't exactly poor, and so while free golf isn't turned down, I just have a hard time believing it's such a big reason why they'd want to do this.  But MANY can't get on the courses they get to rate via other means... so that has to be a big lure... more than the cost of the rounds.  Many are also pure of heart and do this for the good of the game, as they see it.... Many also just want this odd form of prestige... There has to be way more to it than the financial savings.

But again, we are both just guessing, based on what we hear and/or experience.

TH

[John_Cullum]

JK

Please note that I limited my commentary to the "magazine raters" corps. As a proud member of the BBGE, I am perfectly in tune with our totally altruistic purposes.

By the way Tom, thank you for this little debate opportunity, I have been watching Kyle Harris' numbers, and I have been fearing he would pass me any day now in posting, and he's only been around  for a month.

[THuckaby2]

John,

I really don't think you are being fair to the raters of the BBGE...they are in it partially for the cool bag tag and the accompanied status.   Of course that's all you got...

Uhoh... I guess I should have asked my question better this morning... JK, are you a rater for something BESIDES the BBGE?

Because although that is the greatest of all in terms of prestige, status and cool bag tags, well...

That ain't gonna get you comped at Shadow.  

[JakaB]

Huck,

As someone who actually pays for a membership at a couple of the 1500 clubs on the Golfweek right to play list...let me assure you access is a comp.   Don't you have a tee time...

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