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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2006, 08:47:15 PM »
I think I count eight holes with centerline bunkering, not counting par 3s.  This will not be a course where you just tee it up and try to hit it down the middle!  ;D

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2006, 03:10:51 AM »
Hey Mike, another couple questions? :)

What existing courses have influenced your design?

How is the shaping going?

Your bunker images kinda remind me of Texas Tech.  I am excited to see what you guys come up with in regards to additional plant material around the bunkers.  Also reminds me of Black Mesa, but of course that is because you worked there.

Appreciate you posting all the cool imagery and talking to us about the design.

Are you ready to divulge who your "client" is? :o



What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2006, 11:25:22 AM »
Dugger,
Thank you for the questions.

What existing courses have influenced my design?

A lot of different ideas and courses are imbued in Wolf Point.
I have used my own unique principals and in conjunction with some I've seen first hand.
Sometimes it could be a playing angle, or a slight feature, or a underlying theme, there have been a lot of courses that have effected the design in different ways.
 
I specifically visited Seminole and Talking Stick shortly after I was awarded the project as better courses on flatter properties.

I did visit Bandon and St. Andrews during the project.  Bandon Trails, Pacific, the old course and Kingsbarns have helped.

I fondly remember my time at Texas Tech a couple of years ago.  I went to have fun and learn, but the specific task I had in mind was seeing how Tom had used very few basins to drain a flat property and how he hid the irrigation heads.  It didn't take long to see how he drained it... it wasn't flat anymore.
I've used a lot more basins.  I am also working with an erroded site and with any feature shaping we are trying to mimic the on site eroded look.

NGLA, Casa de Campo, ShoreAcres, Pine Valley, Hidden Creek, Friars Head and Pinehurst all have had a hand in small parts, maybe a tee, bunker positioning or green contour.

I will not be revealing my client.  He is a nice, funny and friendly man and he like his small group of friends and will keep it that way.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 11:27:30 AM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2006, 03:29:49 PM »
So, you want hard ball?

Please cite the justifications for the bunkers on the outside legs of doglegs?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2006, 04:10:31 PM »
#6 is a Redan?  

Actually, from the map #15 looks like the green is quite a bit more angled to the line of play so I thought maybe that was a Redan played perhaps from a higher tee on that side of the creek.  How will that one play?

This looks like fun, Mike!  ;D  I hope you can slip a few hundred of your buddies on there one afternoon when nobody's looking!  ;)

Nick Church

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2006, 04:57:06 PM »
Mr. Nuzzo,

I love this thread!  Thank you very much for sharing.

Nick Church

PS
Am I still in your good graces eligible for a few drawings/sketches?

Matt_Ward

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2006, 05:40:12 PM »
Mike:

Forgive me if this has been answered previously ...

What is the total length of the course? Par?

To better understand the unique routing posted -- can you outline what the prevailing wind pattern is during the prime playing months?

Does the wind pattern change noticeably during the winter time frame?

What hole(s) do you see as being "sleepers?"

Thanks ...

Mike_Cirba

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2006, 09:15:40 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for posting all of this info.

I have to say from looking at your concepts that I find it the most intriguing, envelope-pushing, and clever course idea I've seen since the Sheep Ranch.

From the latitude you've been given, I trust that you'll be able to translate from paper to the ground effectively and I'm sure you know the devil is in the details.  

Please keep us updated on your progress.  I'm really happy for you!

Don_Mahaffey

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2006, 09:27:52 AM »
Adam,
Which holes? Just about every hole could dog leg simply because they are so wide, but I really can't think of a hole I'd call a dog leg.

Matt,
Distance ranges from 4,500 - 7300+, par is 71...if you play a "normal" round. There are a lot of tees, just no markers and you could play 100 matches and never play the same distance. The idea is the winner of the hole picks the next tee...or however the players wish to play. The tees are small, fairly level areas and they are all around the greens making it pretty simple to pick one and play on. There will be medallions on the "official" tees, but I'm not sure it will really matter during a match.

Wind, ever present and usually in the 15 - 30 mph range, is from the S-SE most of the time (bottom right to top left on Mike's drawing) and just the opposite of that when cold fronts blow through in the cooler months.

Maybe Mike can answer about which holes may be "sleepers" because so far the ones I was worried about have turned out pretty good, I think, and the ones I thought would be really good aren't built yet.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 02:43:07 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2006, 09:40:03 AM »
Don, 16 from the forward tees has a dog, but after looking closer, I can see what you mean.

The shared fairways on 2 and 11 looks like intimacy personified.


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2006, 11:45:47 AM »
Quote
The idea is the winner of the hole picks the next tee...or however the players wish to play. The tees are small, fairly level areas and they are all around the greens making it pretty simple to pick one and play on. There will be medallions on the "official" tees, but I'm not sure it will really matter during a match.

This sounds better and better all the time.  I bet the mystery owner is a lurker here.  Mr. Owner, can we GCA.com fanatics please be your friends and have a GCA.com toon-a-mint at your course when it is ready?  ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2006, 02:50:32 PM »
RJ,
No, the owner is not a lurker.
Y'all will be the first to know if there is a planned outing.
I forgot to mention The Dunes as the real life inspiration for the winner chooses the tee concept - for me anyway.

Bill,
Thank you.
Trust me on 6 being way more redanlike.  I will say however, that 15 will be way better (more fun) for some of you gents, including me.

Matt,
Before I post some yardages, the 6000 - 6500 tees are perfect and what the course was designed around - the back tees are a longer walk.  :)

Here are the approximate yardages for your mammoth tees...
You can guess the individual par - total is 71 - like Don said.
Hint - there are only 3 par 5s.
325
430
560
350
450
250
370
265
655
325
520
160
545
590
210
390
485
395
Just shy of 7300, but we can change that on a moments notice....

Mike C.,
Thank you.
I'd like to share more, I sure have met many of the gang and am glad y'all are interested.

I think 9 is the hole Don and I were most concerned with from an overall appeal - it was a little formulaic - long hole along the water.  Where we differ a little is in Don's use of the term "pretty good".  If you were to ask Don about his abilities he'd probably and often does say "pretty good".  They are both excellent.

So Matt, to answer your sleeper question I'll go with 9 & 14 for now - both fives.

Adam,
I'll need a little more time to answer your fast ball question.
I will add that #2 posesses a polarized fairway - you will need to be on one edge or the other depending on the pin and how much you like to rely on luck....

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2006, 02:53:30 PM »
So... we are talking about a par 6 there, huh? :o
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2006, 03:00:31 PM »
RJ....
come on.... for you # 9 is 540 - 565.
Although I wouldn't be surprised to see you make a 6 on any hole out there...   ::)   :P   :-X
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2006, 05:46:30 PM »

Before I post some yardages, the 6000 - 6500 tees are perfect and what the course was designed around - the back tees are a longer walk.  :)

Warms my heart....

 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Eric Pevoto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2006, 05:59:08 PM »
Mike,

Did you have to dig/scrape/build the creeks and pond/tank, or did  you accentuate existing? It looks like some decent contour along the creeks?  

Also, why doesn't the "rogue" hole #7 play more toward the creek topography? Would that mean a road crossing?

I'm sure last week was a good test for your drainage.  

(Sometimes this place feels like a Star Trek convention  ;D )
There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

Gary_Mahanay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2006, 07:03:24 PM »
Mike or Don,

When will the irrigation installation start. Are yall going to use Rainbird Eagle 900 heads?  How many heads will it take?  How many GPM will the pumpstation do?  Did you have to bring 3-phase power from a long ways off?

Gary

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2006, 08:55:06 AM »
Eric,
Howdy.
We dug the lake, a friend of mine noted how we really nailed the water retention aspect of the project....  :)
The creek is native and quite accentuated due to the eons of drainage passing through the site.

The rogue hole is actually playing in an old oil well test site clearing.  There are some trees separating 6 & 7.  There is also a potential plan to drill another test hole between 6 & 7 - which could pay the maintenance for a few year if it hit, so I made space for now.

The drainage worked excellently, thank you for noting.  The holes that weren't drained yet, sure need to be....

Beam me up.

Gary,
Irrigation will start after drainage - soon.
We are going to throw the water as far as possible - large spacing.  700 heads.
The pump station is 1800 GPM.
Yes it was about a mile to get the 3-phase onto the property.
We did hide the pump station quite a ways from the lake.
There is a small building just north of the 13th fairway - in the trees - see illustration.
Thank you.


It is hard to take pictures of dirt, but here is one of the 4th green.
I am standing a little short of the green along the direction of play.  I sketched the approximate location of the green.  I would not want to come in from the left side...
There is also a drainage swale behind the green, that if you are a little aggressive, the ball will collect in the back and run a bit.  The swale is the remnants of the ridge that runs across the first fairway, and creates those cross bunkers - the last one can be seen in the background.



Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.