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Punchbowl

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2005, 03:04:11 PM »
You might be interested to know that the first green at NGLA has been altered.  The back left of the green has been raised in the hopes of creating reasonable pin positions back there.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2005, 03:06:10 PM »
 Brendan,

    About three years ago. That is what I had heard. The caddies at RCD dump on Ardglass, but I enjoy it.
AKA Mayday

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2005, 03:07:57 PM »
...plus that elevated tee with tons of other folks milling about waiting for their turn and the NEED to reach the corner makes for some sweaty palms and shaking knees as you draw back that club for the first swing of the day.

Ugh! While I "enjoy" those very same feelings when trying to buckle down to post a low round or at a tense moment in a match, I'd loath to start a round on such a hole. Although, if you hit a perfect drive through all that adversity... :)

TK

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2005, 03:10:04 PM »
You might be interested to know that the first green at NGLA has been altered.  The back left of the green has been raised in the hopes of creating reasonable pin positions back there.

Punchbowl,

Recently? I think you should start a separate thread on this topic, I know it would generate a lot of interest, heated debate, the stuff that makes this site so good (and bad at times).  

TK

Sam Sikes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2005, 03:27:18 PM »
 Some Personal Favorites that haven't been mentioned.

Sunningdale Old
Camargo (like the green)
Country Club of Pepper Pike (like the tee setting)
Baltray
Fenway
Country Club of Birmingham (to give my bama a nod)
Rockaway Hunting (easy but fun)
Winged Foot East (excellent green)
Pine Needles (remember liking it long ago)
Wade Hampton
Highlands C.C.
Sharks Tooth (I love this hole)
Kapalua Plantation


« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 03:33:41 PM by Sam Sikes »

John Pflum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2005, 03:27:53 PM »
#1 at Crystal Downs is a terrific opener.  It presents a great vista of the front nine from the elevated tee to show what awaits you and it's a very solid hole as well.  There is ample room off the tee but the larged shared fairway bunker on the right is not the place to miss.  The approach shot is tougher than first appears as trouble lurks all around the green.  And, as with most of the holes at Crystal, a good deal of the fun starts when you pull out the flatstick.

Yeah -- and it let's you know you're going to get your butt kicked for the next 17.   :)
--
jvdp

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2005, 03:29:36 PM »
I really enjoy the opening hole at Galloway. It definitely gives you a feel of the rest of the course and the green complex is incredible with dropoffs/bunkers and outstanding green contours and the skyline of Atlantic City in the background.

NGLA is my favorite course but the opening hole is not.  I've only played it once and while I would not term it a blind shot, you must believe your caddie and play the shot where he directs you or you can make an easy hole into a very difficult hole.

Brian_Marion

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2005, 03:40:57 PM »
Also gotta love the way the first at Spyglass tumbles down toward the sea.

Mike

Can I recast my vote or is my index finger purple already? What was I thinking? Spyglass is a great opener in my book.

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2005, 03:55:40 PM »
For its value to the round and what it forces relative to spacing and pace of play, I'll take the starter at Roayal Lytham and St. Annes any day.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2005, 04:11:05 PM »
#1 at Wild Horse -- in the middle of March -- after a looooooooong winter of snow.  ;D

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2005, 04:17:36 PM »
The 1st at NGLA is not my favorite, I drove it on the entrance road, good thing I didn't hit the clubhouse....

I'll go with an unknown for this one, the 1st at Val Morin GC in the Laurentians, Quebec.

It plays from a small back tee, over a little dirt road, slightly downhill all the way to the green. At 421 yards, it's just the perfect yardage (375 from the middle tee). The fairway slide to the left and an interesting, front to back sloping green awaits.

A simple hole, strategically speaking, but a fun hole to start a round, very nice environment too.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2005, 04:22:23 PM »
My favorite is the 15th hole at Banff Springs. :'(
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2005, 04:32:14 PM »
You might be interested to know that the first green at NGLA has been altered.  The back left of the green has been raised in the hopes of creating reasonable pin positions back there.

Punchbowl,

Recently? I think you should start a separate thread on this topic, I know it would generate a lot of interest, heated debate, the stuff that makes this site so good (and bad at times).  

TK

 Yes, the back left of this very tricky green has been "filled in and up" in order to give the back left quadrant just a few more feet of pinable space. Right now if you don't hold the center or back center left, balls flow right off the steep bank and into the "black hole of death"....instant bogey or worse.

I love the 1st at NGLA....as it easily sets the tone for semi-blind tee shots and the necessity of paying attention to strategy (no brutish blowing of the driver will yield low scores here).

My other fav's include:

Sporty & Fun:

Fenway...like NGLA, a very strategic short four
PVGC.....much better than Shinny's
Merion....simple and great
Cherry Hills....marvelous vantage point and can be had


Tough, but Fair:

Oakmont....#1hcp hole right out of the box
Plainfield....very straightforward yet tough par
WFW.....just a great and stern test....great green
Sand Hills....this could be absolute fav.
Quaker Ridge....A perfect Tilly par 5...strategy and risk/reward
Castle Pines.....A strong test that looks like it goes forever
Riviera....gets the blood flowing quickly
Hudson National...very stern but fair test of you skills


I could go on and list those places that make me so very happy to just be there, that I can't wait to play them again! ;D ;D
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Brian_Sleeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2005, 05:08:06 PM »
It's got to be experienced to really be appreciated, but since I've played it quite a bit I'll try to describe what the first at Greywalls is like.  

First off, it's the second highest point on the course - nearly the highest - and naturally provides a great panoramic view.  That view is filled up on the horizon by Lake Superior and about 45 miles of coastline, stretching all the way to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, the colors of which can be seen quite well on a clear day.  Beneath all that blue and opposite the distant coastline is the forest boundary beyond the first green and second tee.  To your right is a 100 foot cliff that drops down to the last 150 yards of the 18th.  As beautiful as all of that is, it's what transpires in the slight dogleg right from tee to green that makes it so much fun to play.

The tee shot is downhill and bisected by a deep marsh gully.  The differences in tee lengths allows every player to choose a tee which provides them with excitement in trying to carry the gully (which looks a lot further than it plays), and the fairway on the other side is at the outset one of the widest on the course.  The first 70 yards or so of fairway is also relatively level considering the rough-and-tumble undulations the player experiences for most of the rest of the round.  

By contrast, the longer, more aggressive tee shots face a slight narrowing of the fairway which plays far narrower due to all of the rollercoaster mini-mountains which can funnel the aggressive first-timer's tee shot into any number of hellish lies - and still be in the mowed grass.  I've seen many an aggressive Big Shot step onto the tee for the first time and boldly go for as much distance as humanly possible, attempting to cut off some of the right side, only to be spotted a few minutes later contorting themselves into a circus-like position as they try to Houdini their way back to safety.  This is not to say there's no room for aggression - a smart aggressive route can be taken down the left side, against instinct, and give the player an outside chance of knocking it on in two.

The smart conservative tee shot can be hit with anything in which the player has confidence in carrying the gully, usually a 3-wood, and should favor the left side of the fairway but will not be severely penalized anywhere else on the short turf.  A lay-up from there can again be hit with pretty much anything, but the shorter layup must be played down the left side as a rock cliff runs down the right-center for about 50 yards separating safe fairway from some more gnarly lies.  A more aggressive layup gets some more room to work with, and is rewarded with less club into what I consider to be the toughest green to successfully hit and hold on the golf course.  

The small green is a plateau sloping off on all sides, most severely on the front three, and rewards imaginative ground approaches as well as bombs from high above.  What doesn't work most of the time is the mindless wedge, which quickly gets across the message (in case it hasn't yet been received), "Welcome to Greywalls, you're going to have to do some thinking today."  Though the green is fairly small (narrow but longish), it still has room for some fun undulation, and, like the first at Crystal Downs, many a player has made the mistake of breathing too easily too soon.  I've seen people putt off the green on all sides.

Bottom line: it's a thinking player's hole.  If you play it conservatively but with some imagination, you can be very successful and escape with par or better.  If you expect an easy, walk-in-the-park opener, bring plenty of Xanax and don't forget your wedge when you bring your putter up to the green.  For those reasons it's a great introduction to a course which will over the next 17 holes continually reward imagination and punish apathy.

It's also drop-dead gorgeous when viewed from any angle, particularly in reverse back up the rough slopes.  The undulations really make for a beautiful retrospective view, even if the journey was a bit arduous.

-----------------------------------

Other favorite openers of mine are Crystal Downs, Kingsley Club, Tobacco Road, and, going for the more welcoming opener, Pine Needles.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2005, 05:12:57 PM »
Sancutary's #1 is pretty cool too. Lots of good ones mentioned, but I am sticking with Old White.
Mr Hurricane

JeffTodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2005, 07:35:37 PM »
Quote
author=Evan_Fleisher

I guess I'd also throw in ther first at Bethpage Black...altough not a great hole by any means and certainly not one of the toughest holes on the course, it also sets the tone for the rest of the round with the anticipation of what's yet to come...plus that elevated tee with tons of other folks milling about waiting for their turn and the NEED to reach the corner makes for some sweaty palms and shaking knees as you draw back that club for the first swing of the day.
I think there is a better first hole about 50 yards away from #1 Black. Just hang a left and walk over to the Red.  :)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 07:36:02 PM by JeffTodd »

Mike_Cirba

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2005, 08:42:37 PM »
Jerry Kluger,

The 1st at Galloway is exceptional.  I love how the green just sort of hangs there, repelling anything less than a perfectly struck second shot.

It's exhilerating as a starting hole.

Kent Salisbury

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2005, 08:47:57 PM »
A lot is written about Pine Valley on this site, but the first hole is a great introduction to what you will encounter on the proceeding 17 holes. Easy forced carry to a wide open fairway with many decisions to make. Do you hit driver to the end of the fairway, leaving a 7-9 iron depending on pin placement Or take a more conservative route with a 3 wood leaving 4-6 iron?

I was fortunate to caddy their this past summer and it was a real treat to stand in he middle of the fairway on 1 with a first time player to PV player and guide them through the options.

High handicapped players who hit 3 wood off he tee would continually ignore our advice and try jump start their round  by going for the back pin placement only to pick up after 9 more strokes. Hitting short of the green was a popular selection as well, and would often result in more 5's and the infrequent 4 than 8-9's. Those players would often walk to 2 thinking tomorrow I can be more aggresive. Made thought.

The better player who is playing the course for the first time is actually at an advantage if they aren't  aware of all the trouble long, left, and right. They are normally hitting 7-9 irons and for the most part they don't miss the center of the green when aiming for it. The players who ask for all of the information often try to hit a great shot when it isn't needed. They think it is a birdie hole and try to hit too cute of a shot to a pin that is on the edge of the green, often resulting in a good double bogey.

The hole is a great introduction to PV and decisions that the player has to consider for the rest of the round
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 08:50:45 PM by Kent Salisbury »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2005, 08:52:29 PM »
Mike C - number 1 at Galloway is a good opener, but definitely not a first hole that eases you into the round:  that second shot is tough!

Greywalls , as Brian so aptly described, is a challenging and beautiful hole too
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Andy Troeger

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2005, 08:55:27 PM »
I'll add the par five 1st at Blackwolf Run--River. Not the best hole or even par five on the course to me, but a good opener nonetheless.

A couple other good openers on lesser known courses: Long Beach CC (Michigan City, IN), and Lake Michigan Hills (Benton Harbor, MI), both of very elevated tees. French Lick is another one.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2005, 08:58:05 PM »
Mike C - number 1 at Galloway is a good opener, but definitely not a first hole that eases you into the round:  that second shot is tough!

Greywalls , as Brian so aptly described, is a challenging and beautiful hole too

Paul,

Agreed that the second shot is tough, but it's also generally a short iron approach.  It's just such a cool perched elusive target of a green that you can't help but walk with a skip in your step if you manage to get one on there.....below the hole, of course.  ;)

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2005, 09:04:10 PM »
I'm glad you said "generally" a short-iron second, Mike...true unless you hit kind of a weenie ball off the tee like some people did on the hole... :-[
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Gerry B

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2005, 12:04:26 AM »
here are a few of my faves to add to the list- some feel good starting holes and others are beasts -

merion east -intimidating tee box if the lunch crowd is around

mid ocean as previously mentioned is really good

chicago golf club - sets the tone for the round

walton heath old - quirky opening hole -a 235 yd par 3 -only hole on the clubhouse side of the road

Oak Hill East - tough opener -hogan called it the toughest opening hole in golf

lionhead (legends) in toronto -long par 4 - a brute of an opener with lots of trouble -too bad the rest of the course does not live up to this hole

atlantic city GC - love the practice putting green that is part of the 1st tee box - great driving hole with the house on the left and the hidden road / cartpath

aronomink - a great opener that might be the best hole on the course

Calgary Golf Club (bendelow and willie park) -short par 5 that plays at least 60-75 yards longer due to the uphill - ala the 1st at Arnomink

myopia hunt club - for those of you who have not played it - is a very short blind 290 yd par 4 that is almost driveable for the big hitters - you can make 4 or 6 depending on where one's drive ends up. very represenative of the holes to follow-the course imho is a museum piece

bel air - a very short par 5 but a great setting for the opening tee box - like riviera as well

San Francisco GC -nice medium lengthy par 5 which is a great introduction to one of the great front nines in golf



Punchbowl

Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2005, 11:10:13 AM »
Jerry...the shot to the first green at NGLA is not blind if you take the aggressive line off the tee..and are successful....part of what makes it a great hole...

Also, The change to the back on the first green there happened this fall.

Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Favorite 1st hole?
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2005, 05:12:12 PM »
#1 Franklin Hills CC

Long downhill par 4 with a nicely rolling fairway back slightly uphill to a green open on the left and gaurded short right by a deep bunker.  If you can carry your drive about 285 down the hill you get a nice kick from the first of many slightly sharper slopes of the fairway.  Aside from being a great hole it has a great setting up on the top of the hill at the highest point of the course.  You can see the entire hole and green along with the 2nd tee and fairway, short 295 yard par 4 13th green and the par 3 14th.  

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