Robert,
   Thanks for the response.

Greg,
   How many acres is the site? It looks fairly flat, but photos can fool you, how much movement is there? Has Les determined a routing? What is his vision for the course that received such enthusiastic support? Thanks for providing the link.

Greg,
  Thanks for the feedback.

Robert:

What is your opinion of Thomas MacBroom??

We have two of his courses locally, Pointe West, faux-links style  whose mounding looks way out of place,   Also a new course IIRC, "Confederation", near the raceway.

Ian,

I was going by you stating "not worth the trip", which I think Greywolf is even with it's remote location. That doesn't really have anything to do with being top 100 in the world.

I haven't been privvy to playing any of the courses in your "great" list,  so I'm blind on that count, but I wonder how much more they have to offer as far as "great holes" are concerned. Having played a lot of rugged public courses in BC and Washington, and a few of the private clubs in Vancouver,  I find one constant in that the rugged courses usually have more character than the private clubs because of their topography (the exception being Capilano of course) and that's a big thing for me, and probably why I like Greywolf so much. The other is scenery, which is far more abundant at say, a course like The Harvest Club, one of my favorites in Kelowna, than just about any private club that features bowling alleys lined with tall trees.

I'm curious as to what makes Royal Montreal and the National "dull or average" compared to St. Georges and Hamilton?

I did have the pleasure of playing the Monterey courses last year, and while Pebble and Spyglass are fantastic, I can honestly say for the money that taking a trip down the Kootenay trail and playing Golden, Eagle Ranch, Greywolf, Bootleg Gap and Copper Point for about the same price as Pebble Beach alone... well you get my drift.

For your breakdown on Greywolf, I'd have to say I'd put holes 3, 4 ,5, 8, 13, 14 and 17 in the "great" category, and 9 is better than average, but I'd concur with hole 12 which is probably the weakest hole on the property.

Thanks for bringing up Dakota Dunes, I knew I'd seen that "Sand Hills" project thet they were doing in Sask before, but I couldn't remember it.

Dave: I like several of Tom's courses -- though I think he has yet to do anything truly great. Rocky Crest, Wildfire and Glencairn are all pretty strong, though Glencairn does have some weak bits. I also liked Lake Joseph Club, though many find the blind shots jarring.

He's tempered his greens and made his courses more user friendly in recent years -- love to see him kick it up a notch.

Thanks for the comments, Robert.

The local scuttlebut on the new course was that after Tom had the routing and finished design, the developer took away an addtiitonal 20acres fro more housing.  Word has it he wasn't terribly exicted at the news.  Jeff Mingay probably knows more of the story.

They seeded the course last year, but with all the rain  the seed was washed away - so they sodded the entire course!!  

Robert, I know nothing of Furber's work other than what I read here, and given the mixed reviews I was surprised and disappointed when our course committee recommended him. He must have wowed them though, because their recommendation was both unanimous and enthusiastic. Too bad Rod Whitman didn't get an invitaation to present to them.

Greg,

I didn't join Brightwood until last year - and although I tried, no one would let me take part in the course committee because it was already set up by the time I joined. (And I asked several people more than once).

I'm on leave this season because of my university work. I haven't seen Les's routing, but when I heard the excited news from another member that "there's even an island green!" - I was pretty disappointed. Frankly, in this age of information availability, I don't know how so many people who are so in love with golf could be so clueless about what makes a golf course fun.

I'm afraid we're going to trade in an old course with a lot of character for a new course with "fair lies" and "signature holes" without an ounce of distinction. Everyone will love it. It's depressing. Ton's of money; "championship" course; another faceless Canadian golf course, known only to locals and Score Golf. I hope not - but I wouldn't bet against it.

I am glad we didn't get Graham Cooke though. Christ, if I see his name on ONE MORE course out here!! You'd swear he was the only one in the world.

Island GREEN!?!? Come ON!!

Sean,
I know numerous folks who comment that St. Georges is better than Oakland Hills, and the middle and bottom of Toronto's lineup is strong.

I just made the drive from Detroit to Ann Arbor a couple of weeks ago. Brantford is just one-hour from my door, which is why I made the reference.

I live near Detroit, and not far from Toronto. I've experienced the best courses in and around both cities. Toronto wins, pretty easy, I think.  

St. George's is much better than Oakland Hills in my opinion. And, Detroit's list gets weak after the first few courses at the top. As Ben says, Toronto stays strong through the middle and is much, much stronger at the bottom.  

Ben, Jeff,

Nice to see some promotion and defence of Canadian/GTA courses - better than some of the other negative commentary on here.

Could you add to the list others like National Pines, Lionhead Legends, and Angus Glen South, or are they a cut below the others you've mentioned.  They still seem pretty strong to me compared to many American courses I've played.

A pretty rich golf environment, eh.

Too bad the season is only seven months.

This thread seems like the perfect forum to jump into the fray with my first post.  I am a Fife/Lothian golfer residing in Toronto.  

I have been extremely impressed with the quality and depth of golf courses in the GTA.  The top courses are superb, but I am very impressed with the second tier courses, i.e. those that come in just below the top 15.

With regards to the courses mentioned in this thread, why does the Devils Pulpit not elicit any pseudo votes?  Is this course architecturally challenged, or does the Devils Paintbrush overshadow its elder sibling?

Rob is right, we had six out for the brunch in February, it looks like a lot more have emerged.

Allan,
I much prefer the Paintbrush, because it is far more unique in the market. The Pulpit is good, but it does not differentiate itself like the Paintbrush, which I believe is the definition of fun golf.

Sean,

Of the list above Eagles Nest, Osprey Valley (3 courses), Glen Abbey, and Angus Glen are public access courses.  The rest are private - you'll need to know someone or try to get recipricol playing privileges.