News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2007, 02:36:31 PM »
Is the course walkable?
Looks like a lot of fun . . .

-Ted

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2007, 02:48:26 PM »
The aerial photo looks earily like my third grandson's ultrasound image.....if you look close you can even see his.....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John Kavanaugh

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2007, 02:48:26 PM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2007, 02:58:27 PM »
The aerial photo looks earily like my third grandson's ultrasound image.....if you look close you can even see his.....


I don't want to look that closely.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2007, 03:00:46 PM »
The aerial photo looks earily like my third grandson's ultrasound image.....if you look close you can even see his.....


I don't want to look that closely.

And yet, you will......
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2007, 03:05:25 PM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Define Easy,

If I can make out the routing correctly, there looks to be long walks between 4 and 5, between 5 and 6, and between 12 and 13. Plus, it is the way back tees that the greens are closest too, making it an easiest walk for the 20 something bomber.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2007, 03:07:48 PM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Sounds pretty good . . .
Looks like a place to be proud to be a part of John.
I hope you enjoy many healthy happy rounds there.

-Ted

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2007, 03:07:57 PM »
The aerial photo looks earily like my third grandson's ultrasound image.....if you look close you can even see his.....


I don't want to look that closely.

And yet, you will......

Will? No. Already have!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2007, 03:08:54 PM »
Are 5 & 16 very similar? They look nearly identical from the pics.

CHrisB

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2007, 03:18:15 PM »
Are 5 & 16 very similar? They look nearly identical from the pics.

SPDB,
JK can answer this better than I can, but for starters the 5th green is a much bigger target then the 16th, with bolder green contouring and the bunkers catching a lot of misses (although the front pin brings water more into play).

The 16th is a hit-it-or-else par 3 with a much smaller (narrower) target and the water catching a lot of misses. I played a tournament here last year and the tees were moved up every day--the 208-yard tee might be a little much for the shot. Anything more than a 7-iron is a very uncomfortable shot on that hole (actually, any club is uncomfortable!). Very exciting/scary hole.

The only weird thing I remember about the 16th (which may be more maintenance-related) was my playing partner barely missing a shot to the front pin, hitting the bank above the bunker not far from the fringe, and running through the bunker into the water right. Seemed like a strange result, and at the time we thought having a higher rear bunker lip could keep shots in the bunker but leave a very difficult bunker shot. (We got over it though and still thought it was an exciting hole to play.)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 03:31:29 PM by Chris Brauner »

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2007, 03:23:49 PM »
Sean -

I did not think they were that similar. I thought 16 played a little more downhill. The yardages are similar though, but I certainly did not think I was playing the same hole. At least that is one man's opinion. Plus water was more in play on 16 than 5.
Mr Hurricane

John Kavanaugh

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2007, 08:09:46 PM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Define Easy,

If I can make out the routing correctly, there looks to be long walks between 4 and 5, between 5 and 6, and between 12 and 13. Plus, it is the way back tees that the greens are closest too, making it an easiest walk for the 20 something bomber.



Garland,

I thought I covered the gamut in examples of walking difficulty.  Your eye is crap..the walk from 4 to 5 is 30 yds to 50 yds depending on the tee selection.  The walk from 5 to 6 must be all of 15 yds as is the same of the walk from 12 to 13.  When I walk I generally choose the nearest tee to the green headed in a positive direction...they are all very close and a mixture of long and short.  Despite the fact that I really don't like you, you are welcome to be my guest at any time fully gratis on me.

Andy Troeger

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2007, 08:20:34 PM »
Course looks very cool to me. They have fantastic photos on their website as well. I had the chance to play it once and couldn't make it  :(

I love the look of #15 and 16.

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2007, 08:48:27 PM »
Andy and All,

Get there to play if you can.  Worth the trip to see a great course and even better if Jaka is buying....

Ken

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2007, 09:50:06 PM »
Did the greens rebound during the fall?
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2007, 10:50:48 AM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Define Easy,

If I can make out the routing correctly, there looks to be long walks between 4 and 5, between 5 and 6, and between 12 and 13. Plus, it is the way back tees that the greens are closest too, making it an easiest walk for the 20 something bomber.



Garland,

I thought I covered the gamut in examples of walking difficulty.  Your eye is crap..the walk from 4 to 5 is 30 yds to 50 yds depending on the tee selection.  The walk from 5 to 6 must be all of 15 yds as is the same of the walk from 12 to 13.  When I walk I generally choose the nearest tee to the green headed in a positive direction...they are all very close and a mixture of long and short.  Despite the fact that I really don't like you, you are welcome to be my guest at any time fully gratis on me.

I doubt my eyes crap. However, my guess at the routing may be crap.
I have to wonder how it is you really don't like me without having met me. Did your mother bring you up to be that way? It seems to me you are the poster boy for someone whom everyone loves, but has a bad online persona.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2007, 03:06:16 PM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Define Easy,
...


Garland,

I thought I covered the gamut in examples of walking difficulty. ...

John,

If you looked in your dictionary for the definition of golf course and found it said, "Examples, Dornoch in Scotland, Royal County Down in Northern Ireland, and National Golf Links of America on Long Island New York."

Would that be a useful definition? For people that had never been to any of those places? For people that had no knowledge of golf?

My definition of easy walk has more to do with the walk between holes than it has to do with walking the holes. For example, #16 at Black Mesa goes up a steep hill. To me that's golf and does not enter into my consideration of the walk for a course. However, the walk from #6 to #7 at Black Mesa is a considerable walk up hill. That helps me define Black Mesa as a less than optimal walking course. I would prefer they had built a hole that ran from near the 6th green uphill to the 7th. Then I would have no problem with it. As an interesting side note, I played 36 that day, the 2nd 18 in a cart, which also refused to make the trip from 6 green up to 7 so when I finished I had to find someone to tell they needed to go fetch the cart.

What's your definition?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2007, 03:15:29 PM »
The course is as walkable as Rustic Canyon, Riviera and Ballyneal...easier than Tobacco Road or Erin Hills and a touch tougher than Pinehurst #2.  Many walking bridges were built at great expense.

Define Easy,
...


Garland,

I thought I covered the gamut in examples of walking difficulty. ...

 I would prefer.....

That about sums it up. The rest is nit picking.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John Kavanaugh

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2007, 03:15:52 PM »
Please start another thread if you want this argument.  I gave examples of courses I can walk.  I include the walk from the parking lot and every thing on the course.  Shuttle carts are also included if need be.  If a 47 year old weighing in at 283.7 lbs can walk a course, keep up and have a good time it is an easy walk.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2007, 03:22:01 PM »
Thanks for sharing the photos.

What was the impetus for the tree removal program? Most look well out of play.

The course is very difficult but was built for people who love and respect the game enough not to suck.

Oddly enough, I kind of agree with this sentiment, which is why I tend to follow it's corollary: Turn down invites to unbelievable golf courses if you can't play well enough to not embarrass yourself. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John Kavanaugh

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2007, 03:31:43 PM »
Tom Meeks was a great help in motivating the tree removal.  I prefer the course without the trees.  Hard to believe but it gave it a more modern feel.  

One day GolfWeek will see this as the last great classic course ever built. (1999)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2007, 03:39:13 PM »
From the photographs it looks marvelous, and certainly unlike any of the cookie cutter Fazio courses that I have played...reamakably different actually.
I look forwrad to playing it when I can.

By the way that was not a Fazio bash...as I have always said, I have never played a bad Fazio golf course, just not one that left an indelible impression, but this one...I think it could!

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2007, 05:41:09 PM »
...the walk from 4 to 5 is 30 yds to 50 yds depending on the tee selection.  The walk from 5 to 6 must be all of 15 yds as is the same of the walk from 12 to 13. ...

Let's see if I got the routing right. It was stated the first hole is the one farthest left. I deduce that 7 holes of the front 9 are all on the segment of land adjoining the 1st. I deduce that the second and third continue around the outside of that piece of land. The pictures show a bridge right behind 3, which will lead across the water to where 4 and 5 are located. 4 is the long hole running away from the bridge, 5 is the short hole with the green back by the water. When you leave 4, the most prominent features in the aerial that appear to be tees to 5 are back near the water. The return bridge appears to be near these features, but not near the green. However, a closer look reveals less prominent features in the aerial that appear they also could be tees near the 4 green. It dawns on me now that #6 requires a drive across water. The tees are spread at nearly a right angle to the fairway, which confused me. The way back tees require the same length carry over the water as the forward tee, but a much longer carry to the fairway. So it was my inability to figure out the routing that led to wrong conclusions on the front 9. On the back 9 my eyes were crap, because there is a hard to distinguish (for me) bridge from 12 to 13.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Doug Ralston

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2007, 07:13:24 PM »
My one and only private course! Thanks again John. :)

VN is extremely beautiful but very unforgiving to we high handicappers. Off the fairways is mostly dead.

Still,. play it any chance you get!

Doug

John Kavanaugh

Re:Barney's Beloved Victoria Nat'l (pictures)
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2007, 07:56:09 PM »
Garland,

What are you attempting to prove with your analysis?  

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back