Bear in mind that SLCC is primarily a CB Mac design, whereas Blue Mound and Yeamans were exclusively Raynor. That fact alone is often determinative of how many "template" holes the course will feature.

Peter, thanks for the input.  I suppose we could have hashed this out over dinner that evening and into another bottle of vino, but I doubt Liz and Jo Ann would have found it as sintilating dinner conversation as we do.  

The 8th tee pad is tucked into a treed area behind the 7th green...


and the 8th green is barely visible below the orange leaves.


The 12th tee "Crater" (??Is that right?)


...and then from behind the 12th green


From front right of the 15th green, with evident raised back plateau...


...and then from the far right side of the same green


#16 and #18 to follow...

Thank you to both Peter and Wayne.  The combination of the 2 sets of photos really brings to life (as well as photos can) the St. Louis C.C. I have always loved.

Other than moving the 5th green back down the hill and then moving the 6th tee backwards to the area of the old 5th green, the routing and greens and tees have not really changed much in the last 25 years.  The new #5 green was done sometime after 1990 and before 1995.

I have not seen the course now for about 10 years, and I thought I heard there may now be a new tee box for 17.  But still, other than 5 green, this is the same routing as I have always known.

The bunkers are flat.  Perhaps this is why I prefer flat bunkers.  It was actually common at most St. Louis courses built in the first half of the 20th century.  I like the flat bunkers, with the light brown sand.  I have never liked gleaming white sand in bunkers on Mid-West golf courses.  Bunker sand should try to replicate the sand found near that region.

It was funny to hear the discussion about the OB on #1.  In a US Open Sectional qualifier in 1990, there was a play-off for the last spot.  One of the contestents pushed his drive hard right, but his ball hit solid wood and bounced back into the fairway.  Another contestant did actually go OB right.  So although the fairway is wide, having the OB so close to fairway seems to bring it more into play, even for good players who should know better.

As for #6, in that same qualifier the back tee box did not yet exist.  I caddied for that day’s medalist, and the three players in our group all just hit drivers both times knowing they would likely be in the bunkers in front of the green.  The since added back tee box, should bring the lay-up back into play for even the big hitters.

I once made the mistake of asking Sam Snead if he remembered St. Louis CC. (this was during one of Hale Irwin's fund raising events at nearby Old Warson C.C. in the mid-80s).  He replied that he did not.  I then added that it was the sight of the 1947 US Open.  He just slowly turned his head to face me and replied "I don't wanna remember that."  Having been dumb enough to raise this painful memory, I realized it was best that I then just leave.  I deserved the curt response.  But more so, it shows how much passion he had for that missing US Open win.

Next summer, the St. Louis Metro Golf Association is having their stroke play (54 holes) championship at St. Louis CC in early August.  It may be a good opportunity to see how the course handles tournament play in the 21st century.

StLCC is more plane worthy then Victoria National in June.  I had no idea that Mountain Lake could even be discussed at the same table as StLCC...I didn't think a Florida course outside of Seminole could be that good.  

StLCC is the only course in the midwest that I would recommend a New Yorker get on a plane and see tomorrow if possible.

St. Louis and Philadelphia are the suicide belts for superintendents.

Mountain Lake the best Raynor in the world? It's my only Raynor, but I'd imagine that Carmargo or Yeaman's Hall are a bit more well-regarded. That being said, I do have a very soft spot for Mountain Lake and always will.

Double Plateau:


Biarritz:


Cape:


Short:


Redan (from back left):

Wayne, thank you so much for posting the pictures, and also thanks to others who posted pics! I really appreciate seeing the full Biarritz green,  Prinipal's Nose, and the Road bunker, features that have been lost over the years at my course, Hackensack, (Banks.)

As for "best Raynor" course, don't you have to start with Fishers Island and argue about 2nd?

The Best Raynor starts with The Course at Yale. For people who have played most of the good Raynor designs, I'm not sure this point is arguable.


Tony

Jeff:

I'm confused. Which holes - by name - have had changes made to them?

Was it Silva's work?

Anthony

"Mr. Macdonald, who served on the advisory committee, was familiar with the plans from the outset, but Mr. Raynor was the real genius of the masterpiece, who made the layout, designed the greens and gave the work of construction his supervision from start to finish."
--Charles Banks, as quoted in The Evangelist of Golf.

Deepdale, Gibson Island, Shinnecock Hills and most likely some of what was Ocean Links, were Macdonald courses.

If we are going to credit Donald Ross with 400 courses, then CB Mac gets some credit for Yale:

http://research.yale.edu/wwkelly/Yale-golf/Topics/ArchitectPages/Macdonald.html

By the anniversary of Adee’s letter, his good friend Charles Macdonald [age 68], who had “renounced having anything to do with building another golf course” [7], had agreed to serve as a consultant, and Seth Raynor had been hired as the architect. A 36-hole plan was drawn, financing for Course No. 1 was arranged, and the Athletic Board of Control authorized the execution of contracts, so that construction could begin.

Macdonald wrote that “the building of it was a difficult engineering problem.”

The land was high, heavily wooded, hilly and no part of it had been cultivated for over forty years. There were no roads or houses upon it. It was a veritable wilderness when given to Yale….When in the timber one could not see fifty feet ahead, the underbrush was so thick. However, we found on the high land wonderful deposits of sea sand, indicating that the sea must have swept the land during the glacial period. In a bog some quarter of a mile long we found deposited some four to six feet of wonderful rich black muck. These two deposits of sand and muck made it possible to build the course. [7]

There is no evidence that C B Macdonald visited the construction site or saw the course after it opened on April 15, 1926. That was the work of Seth Raynor, Charles Banks, Ralph Barton, and Bill Perkins. Macdonald was involved in the design and construction of 15 golf courses from 1893 to 1926. He accepted no fee for any of this work. Significantly, when he wrote his autobiography he chose to write about only four courses, National, Lido, Mid-Ocean and Yale. [1]

____________________________

PS. I am pretty sure that Raynor only spent 1 visit at Mountain Lake. How much credit should Olmstead receive?

I think it is pretty clear from the archival evidence that Macdonald was the designer of Creek Club.  Piping Rock and SLCC were likely Macdonald.  Anthony, is there a reason you didn't include these?