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Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2007, 11:42:31 AM »
Eight teams of 15 players each headed by a player captain.  The FEDX Cup is indistinguishable from the host of other tournaments throughout the year and can't begin to compete with the majors.  A Team competition would be something new and the players may actually have some fun with it.  

Teams are selected on the basis of a draft by the 8 player coaches.  Player coaches determined on basis of season peformance (or TV ratings potential if we want to be cynical).  Any player who declines to participate loses their tour exemption for the following year.  

Eight Team Playoff like the NCAA.  Each Tournament is a 3 day Ryder Cup style Team competition featuring 12 players with 3 alternates.  Week 1 eight teams compete, week 2 four teams compete and week 3 two teams play-off for the championship.    

Purse based on far your team advances.

Three weeks and its over and the Western Open is brought back as its own stand alone tournament.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2007, 11:43:37 AM »
What would the top guys say if points were not allocated at the start of these playoffs based on season long totals?

Tiger not playing the first week and still being 5th on the list seems a bit off...in any other "playoff" you start flat and have to earn your way from there...

If all players start level and the purse is something these guys really want, and they'll all play...does a $10 million deferred annuity grab their attention? If not, what would?

I think there is a way to make it work, and the Tour has said several times that the current iteration is not set in stone...

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 11:56:14 AM »
What would the top guys say if points were not allocated at the start of these playoffs based on season long totals?

Tiger not playing the first week and still being 5th on the list seems a bit off...in any other "playoff" you start flat and have to earn your way from there...

If all players start level and the purse is something these guys really want, and they'll all play...does a $10 million deferred annuity grab their attention? If not, what would?

I think there is a way to make it work, and the Tour has said several times that the current iteration is not set in stone...

In other playoffs, every team does NOT start level.  You earn home field advantage, you play lower seeded teams first, you are exempt from wild card games, and so forth.  If you want to think of Tiger skipping the first week as skipping a wild card game because of his regular season performance, then it isn't so off.

Besides, if Tiger starts level with the #70 guy, who has no wins, may or may not have a top ten all season, and has won millions less, is THAT a reasonable format?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2007, 12:00:54 PM »
The inherent problem is that anything that emphasizes the playoff too much - forcing the guys to play every event, resetting the points to zero, etc. - only incents the big guys who don't need the money to not play at all.

Tell Tiger/Phil/whomever that they have to play every week and you are guaranteeing they won't play any week.

The only tweak I'd make at this point has already been mentioned - keep the "top 10 and you're in next week" thing alive and see if any little guy can make it the whole way through. That'd be about the only thing I'd truly find compelling.

The top player pairings is a nice bonus, though, I'll admit that.

-----

Personally, I'd also insist the events be on CBS, or that NBC invests in some much better HD camera technology.

But their graphics sure are purdy.... :-\
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2007, 12:03:19 PM »
You do start level to the extent that whoever wins the first game is winning the playoff series...golf is a bit of a challenge, but if you look at in terms of each player 'playing-off' against each of the other players there is no other way to do it...

Tiger earned plenty of money up to that point, and there is still a money list to be won that is not directly correlated to the FEDEX Cup, but to call it "the Playoffs", they might as well start acting like they believe it themselves...

If Tiger cannot beat that #70 guy in a four week run, he just ain't gonna be the FEDEX Cup champion...

Cabell Ackerly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2007, 12:20:21 PM »
Part of the problem with the FedEx Cup, is that it's covering the entire season. The Tour already has 2 awards for that - the money winner and the Player of the Year. Do we really need a 3rd?

If you follow that logic, everyone should start with no points at the beginning of the playoffs.


Jim Colton

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2007, 12:21:51 PM »
One other thing they can do is get rid of that awful FedEx Cup trophy.  Remember when Johnny and Hicks were handling it with white gloves at the beginning of the year (strangely, they weren't so careful with it in the new FedEx commercials)?  I don't see any PGA golfer seeing that trophy and saying to themselves, 'Man, I gotta get my hands on that thing!'

I know it's the first year, but it's like the Tour has forced NBC to help shove this thing down our throats.  Some education is necessary, but does it take more than 2 minutes for an average person to comprehend.  Green is good, yellow is okay, red is bad.  Thank you, Dan Hicks, chief kool-aid drinker.  And it's no real skin off my back whether Will McKenzie or Steve Flesch or whoever claims that 70th spot and gets to play this week.  I watched yesterday because of the Tiger/Phil duel, not because of FedEx cup ramifications.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 12:22:21 PM by Jim Colton »

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2007, 12:55:58 PM »
I've never really liked the idea of the Tour Championship.  30 players is too small a field, in my opinion.  I'd eliminate the Tour Championship, play the first three Playoff weeks as scheduled, then take a week off and begin the Quest for the Card series, which would give the top-tier players a week off before the final event of the year, the PGA Championship.

Yes, I think that Glory's Last Shot should finally earn its nickname.  It would do this by crowning not only the champion of the PGA, but also the champion of the PGA Tour.  And ideally, one would hope to see a PGA Championship Sunday duel between two top players, where they are playing not only for the Wanamaker trophy, but also the FedEx Cup.  The PGA would have to be moved about 5 weeks later, but I don't see much problem with that.

I've always thought that the season should end with a major, rather than a facsimile of such.
Two problems with this.  First the PGA Tour doesn't run the US PGA Championship and the Tour wants its own "Major" that's what this is all about.  Second, you could almost guarantee (Sod's LAw being what it is) that the winner of the PGA Chamopionship would be a European entrant, who isn't even in the running for the Fedup thingummy.  Cue attention on the major winner and Finchem gets to award a $10m annuity to someone who the press are ignoring whilst the champ gets his trophy.  Of course you could always restrict entry to Fedup contenders and get rid of all those peky foreigners and club pros from the PGA Championship.  Which would immediately remove major status from the PGA Championship in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Actually, it sounds a good idea, after all.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2007, 01:06:44 PM »
Okay okay; I can see that I didn't think hard enough about my own idea (I'm not an NFL fan, so that consideration did not even cross my mind).

What if you substituted the PLAYERS Championship where I suggested the PGA Championship?  I know it still competes with football; would enough people watch the PLAYERS if it was in September?

Probably not... :-\

Dan Moore's idea of teams of players is very intriguing.  That could institute a little smack-talk golf into the Tour season.  I also think it would be a more efficient way to expose some B-level players to the people who currently only care about guys like Tiger, Phil, etc.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2007, 02:13:47 PM »
I think the premise of this thread was that the PGA Tour wants an end-of-year playoff structure, and therefore that it's here to stay, so let's come up with a better way of implementing the structure. I can understand why people don't like having such a structure at all...but it's here to stay, at least for a while, so why not daydream within the realm of reality instead of being pragmatic about fantasy?

Cheers,
Darren

Ray Richard

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2007, 07:54:11 AM »
You need to separate the Tour Championship from the Fed Ex cup. Make the FedEx Cup a three event, points contest with a reset at each tournament. The highest point total over the three tournaments wins.

And tell the TV golf announcers to lay low on all the extrapolative madness, between color codes and projected winner point totals I had to hit the mute button a few times and just watch the golf.

Make the Tour championship the top 30 money winners only.

Gib_Papazian

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2007, 12:56:58 AM »
Gentlemen,

It is a fruitless task to compete with the NFL as they rule the universe. Personally, I have lost my taste for the entire vulgar mess of professional sports and have come to agree more and more with C.B. Macdonald, who warned of the profanity of money ruining the purity of amateur sport.

However, the quickest and most entertaining alternative to this obtuse FedEx nonsense is to simply arrange a series of challenge matches like "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf" . . . . . . with a twist.

This might have to be on pay-per-view of course, but how about a grudge match between Phil and Tiger? . . . . . . except Phil plays right-handed, Tiger plays left and their wives caddy nude.

That ought to draw at last a 6.2 market share if you tape delay the match and put it against a Browns v. Lions game in late November when both teams are 3-10.

Besides that, the entire FedEx idea is as phony as Carol Doda's tits (or Tim Finchem's suntan) and as interesting as the movie "My Dinner With Andre."

Who cares if Tiger, Phil, Vijay or Furyk win an extra couple million? Money is meaningless at that level; anyone ever look at the estimates at how much those guys make a year already?

Defer it, don't defer it, give it away to the Little Sisters of the Poor or a Home for Unwed Parakeets . . . . . all it comes to is another tax liability for those guys and pain in the ass.

There are only four tournaments that REALLY matter, another four that carry some second tier prestige and the rest of the tour is little more noise on the TV in the Men's Grillroom while everybody pounds beers.

In all seriousness, the Tour needs to travel to more places like Colonial or Riviera. This "pure aerial" game is a yawn. The reason nobody cares about tennis anymore (remember the craze in the mid-70's and early 80's?) is there is no artistry and finesse. The game has been reduced to two guys hammering it as hard as they can at each other until one makes a mistake.

We don't need to make the courses longer, but shorter and more treacherous. Wild putting surfaces, penal bunkers . . . . . swashbuckling bravado. If these tournaments were like the Masters in the sense that there was drama all the way down the stretch, people would watch if they were playing for nickels.

Put some "do-or-die" choices in these events - which is why you watch TPC Sawgrass - and you won't need naked blondes to sell the product.

 

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2007, 01:02:24 AM »
 :o Heees aliiiive, hees aliive!  :o :o All hail Papazian, come out of his nest.   where you been Gib, hand fishin on da bayou?  ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike Sweeney

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2007, 05:37:20 AM »
A version of Ben Stein's money:

Tiger puts up $10 million of his own $, winner take all against Phil, VJ and Ernie. 36 hole event over a weekend.

If Phil, Ernie or VJ win, they take $10 million (winner take all) of Tiger's money (closeup of Tiger pouting). If Tiger wins and they lose, they each have to spend 1 day as Tiger's butler at the new pad in Palm Beach. (Seinfeld ripoff).

Tiger gets the TV revenues from the golf and if he wins from the Reality TV show - Tiger's Butlers.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 05:40:31 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2007, 06:06:26 AM »
My cousin said that the only thing that will get people watching golf during football season is if Phil and Tiger play each other for a night with the other's wife. Similar to Gib's idea.

I just don't think there is literally anything the Tour can do about football. Golf is dead once that starts. For most people their own golf season is pretty much over - weather is getting colder, daylight is shorter, kids are back in school, work pace picks up after a slower summer, etc. Plus, if you have a fave college or NFL team there is no way you're watching golf over the football game. You might flip to the golf but you're interest will be in football.


Gib_Papazian

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2007, 12:21:48 PM »
Dick,

Reports of my death have been exaggerated, but the rest of the rumors and on-going lunacy are unfortunately true.

As for this FedEx business, my perspective has drastically changed because of simple time pressures. I used to have an hour or two on Sunday afternoon to watch the end of the Wachovia or Buick while marinating whatever culinary masterpiece I was preparing for the family or evening guests.

However, once I made the transition from AVID viewer to CASUAL viewer - and watching golf was no longer part of the rhythm of my life - it now requires a special effort to set aside the time to turn on the idiot box and watch Jerry Kelly duel it out with Jonathan Byrd.

Yeah, right.

To get me to watch golf on Saturday is a hopeless cause; how can the third round of a non-major compete for my interest with Trojan football?

Now, if the PGA Tour had an event every year at Shinnecock or some suitable venue with appropriate gravitas it might be a different story. I will make a point to watch the Nissan final round for obvious reasons, but that is about the only "regular event" that can get me to put aside the other 2341 pressing issues on my plate and actually watch.

As for the above comment about Tiger and Phil playing a match for a night with the loser's wife . . . . . I cannot tell the difference between those two. Newport Beach is full of beautiful, generic blondes. All you need is a fat wallet and a pair of Topsiders to get one.

I imagine Tiger chose that Swedish woman after learning from his father what it is like to be married to a dragon-lady. I thought Asian women were subservient, but evidently not. Better to get hitched to one who goes along for the ride with her mouth shut.

As for Phil, he looks like every chubby married guy on Coronado Island with a trophy wife. As a matter of fact, the last Tour event I went to see, most of the wives looked like Stepford Sisters . . . . .

There might be something to that movie after all.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 12:22:21 PM by Gib Papazian »

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2007, 01:35:53 PM »
Hey - Look what the cat dragged in!!! How are ya.

Not to hijack this thread (but the Fed-Ex Cup is reallly really bad and can not be improved).Anyone other than me been watching the US Open this week? I have been enthralled watching these guys. Federer is out of this world. Roddick looked good for 2 sets, but Federer is just un real!!


Integrity in the moment of choice

Gib_Papazian

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2007, 02:10:57 PM »
John,

Tennis is unwatchable, irrelevant dog vomit. The problem is that every single tennis player I have ever met is an assh*le. Hardly somebody to share four hours wandering through the linksland, but certainly somebody I would enjoy beaning in the forehead with a tennis ball. . . . . . which explains the allure of the sport.

It used to be that the women were attractive enough to watch - but only for the hot legs and the fact that there was some amount of artistry in their game.

If I ever regain my former life and decide to watch a lot of sports again, there are enough smokin' chicks on LPGA Tour to keep my attention and at least they are playing a game I understand.

The *real* question for me is theoretical: If I were locked in an institution (not much of a stretch these days) with only two TV channels to watch, would I cut my wrists faster watching men's tennis or soccer?

I'm sure there are a bunch of Brit's this will offend, but the only thing Americans care less about than tennis is David Beckham. My daughter has been playing soccer for years and the rules are still as mysterious as Cricket.

Her coach tried to sign me up to be a referee . . . . I told him didn't have a clue and he sighed and said: "Most of the parents have no idea either."    
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 02:13:04 PM by Gib Papazian »

Tom Huckaby

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2007, 03:59:11 PM »
Gib:

Perhaps the mystery of soccer to you (and many other Americans) is that there are so few rules?

I coach and referee.  Hell if I can do that, anyone can.

Seriously, all you need to know about soccer is this:

1.  Don't touch the ball with your hands unless you're wearing a different shirt from your team-mates
2. Kick it in the goal and that's a point
3.  Don't go past the defenders closest to the goal before the ball gets there.

All else really doesn't matter.  And you can even forget #3 and be just fine.

Love the rant, though.  And you're right, soccer never will catch on as a major sport here.  But most of us who love it really don't care if it does.

Now back to golf.....

 ;D

Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2007, 04:53:18 PM »
Personally I find professional football unwatchable with college football even less compelling.  I realize that I am in a minority in this regard.  Friends of mine who have played football tell me they loved it but frankly I find the correlation between a long football career and a short life expectancy deeply disturbing.  I doubt that Bill Belicheck or for that matter Roger Goodell gives it a second thought.  The celebration of authoritarian figures like Vince Lombardi doesn't give me a warm and cozy feeling either.  




Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2007, 05:04:40 PM »
Huck,

I agree, soccer is easy to learn and even funner for kids to play...

I just don't get why Soccer in America, why is by far and away the biggest youth participant sport over any other sport in America, can't get any fans with a professional league??  I mean when all these kids grow up, why aren't they more interested in watching soccer?  Hell I played soccer for years as a kid and even on my school team...but I never watch it now, except for World Cup once every 4 years.

I guess it really is that much better to play than to watch...

Tom Huckaby

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2007, 05:17:26 PM »
Not to go too off the beaten track, but as one who does watch a lot of soccer and hasn't played in years, well.... the key is you have to have a rooting interest.  If you do, soccer is damn well the BEST sport to watch because you absolutely live and die with every second of the game.  The ebbs and flows are incredible and when goals are scored it's either magic or death.  That being said, it's the results that matter and even I do tend to record and speed things up at times!

But the main thing is that our pro league here is obviously second-rate at best on the world level, and Americans aren't interested in second best.  THus to me it turns out kinda like AAA baseball... some local cities that have not much else really get into that, but in the big cities it doesn't matter much at all.  The problem is to make soccer work, it would necessarily have to be in the big cities - remember we only care about major league.  But big cities already have so many other teams, in way more established sports, not many fans will really get into a second-rate team even if it is right there for them.

Then add that our MLS does a season contrary to the rest of the world - we play while other clubs rest, in the summer - and there's another death blow for it really gaining traction.  The best players either want to rest in summer, or have to play for their country.

So it is what it is.  I for one don't mind it, as the soccer I watch is overseas.  I don't expect us to have a major league here in my lifetime... if ever.

TH

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2007, 07:21:49 PM »
Oh Gibster!!!,

I REALLY hope you don't think EVERY tennis player is an Ass%^$# as I played the sport for a long time growing up , gave it up and now am playing a little as it's less pounding on my poor joints than running ;)

I love watching Federer play as he is just so much better than all his opponents.

Phil,

I'm w/ you on Football. The magic is gone and it an't ever commin back. I could care less if i ever watch another game.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 07:22:20 PM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

Gib_Papazian

Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2007, 08:52:12 PM »
My little brother watches "Australian Rules" football as a form of religion, but he is married to an Aussie like Ran. Besides him, never met one who gave a rat's keester about it.

As a matter of fact, Huckster is the only American I can think of - aside from Brains Goodale (read: expatriot) - who even makes a pretense about caring about soccer.

On closer examination, I'm willing to bet that Huck's beloved Santa Clara Broncos are something like a women's NCAA soccer power - which constitutes the only thing they have to hang their hat on besides being the alma mater of "America's Guest."

A bit like Stanford actually, who own the national championship in "sports" like Luge or Javelin chucking but couldn't score a touchdown if their own cheerleaders were playing defense.

There, I feel better. It has been a long time since I milked a little venom out of my spleen.

I'd forgotten how cathartic this website can be . . . . . .  

And John,

I'll qualify my indictment of tennis players to exclude those who grew up playing it and finally had the good sense to give it up for golf. I know a lot of people who started out swinging a raquet and traded it in for a Big Bertha.

Have yet to meet one who went in the other direction.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 08:54:53 PM by Gib Papazian »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:YOUR version of the Fed Ex playoffs
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2007, 11:09:17 PM »
My little brother watches "Australian Rules" football as a form of religion, but he is married to an Aussie like Ran. Besides him, never met one who gave a rat's keester about it.


I love it too, but can't get any of it on the telly here in the States...

Aussie Rules is sweet to watch and even funner to play..
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 11:09:29 PM by Kalen Braley »

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