[redanman]

Re:Pebble Beach and the Price of Everything.

It is 3x the walk-up for the Old Course.  You decide.

It is 5x the walk-up for Bethpage Black (it can be done)

For Pebble Beach I suggest

A bottle of your favorite malt whisky and walk around looking for your dog until they kick you off. You'll see more, enjoy the walk and you'll have $500+ in your pocket.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Re:Pebble Beach and the Price of Everything.

It is 3x the walk-up for the Old Course.  You decide.

Value at Pebble is improving as it is now less than 2x the walk up for the Old Course as 125GBP (2007 price) = 250 USD.  Not that it makes much difference.

[Ash Towe]

It is too expensive.  However I am spending a great deal of money to get to Monterey and it is a once in a lifetime experience, so I will do it.
The cost of staying at the Lodge is too much for me so I will try ringing the day before to get a start.  The weather forecast will also have to be good.  Is Pebble full every day making it almost compulsory to stay at the Lodge?

[Jim Bearden]

Bob I played in 1973 the one and only time and as you know I was privledged to to play CPC many times. At those prices I would play Bandon rather than PB. But then I feel PB if not on the Pacific is an average course.

BTW when I played in 73 the price was probably $25 and there were about 10 others on the course.

[Jeff Doerr]

I walked 3 practice rounds and 4 tourney rounds for the 1992 US Open. I think the season ticket was something like $175 back then.  I think that was a good value.

$500 to swing my sticks there - not so sure at my present budget...

[Mark Arata]

I would pay that to play PB, esp. if I could share it with my son. I did pay similar to allow him to experience Pinehurst No. 2 a year ago.

Speaking of the SB, I just heard it will be played down the street from my office in 2011!  With 100,000 seats (about 20K more than normal), I wonder how this will affect scalpers prices.  Hopefully, I can afford to go to my first and likely only SB and I won't even have hotel costs. Maybe I can even rent out the spare bedroom and make money on the deal.

not likely Jeff, the price of tickets for that game will probably be around 900 dollars face value, with the suite tickets and club seats going for a cool grand each.

In 2001 when my building hosted the superbowl, the face value of a ticket ranged from 250-350, the next year, 350-400, the next year 400-450, this past year, 500-600 in miami.
They will just continue to raise the price 10-15% a year, and no one will say a word.

If they actually have 100,000 sellable seats in that building, you could be looking at a 90-100m gross on ticket sales alone, which is just staggering. I have been to 6 superbowls, and I can tell you first hand, they are a million times better watching it on TV with friends than being at the game.
(and having said that, if the Jets ever make it again, I will be there, no matter what the cost)

In regards to Pebble Beach, 1k for a round of golf is a bit much, even for someplace as special as Pebble Beach, I would do it, but it would have to be as a walkup, I wouldnt take a chance on weather for that kind of money.

[Andy Ryall]

I can see both sides in terms of the once in a lifetime event versus what you truly get for $500.   For me, having played Bandon and Pacific in 2002 at $150 each, I can't see paying double that rate (2007) and getting 2 times better of an experience at Pebble.   To paraphrase an earlier reply, I almost think it would be worth paying $100 to walk the course and leave the sticks in the car.    

[RJ_Daley]

Put me down with Dr. V.  

I'll just say no, thankyou.

Please break this down for me, I may have missed something.  What happened to PBGL that it went from a legendary ~$20 a round in the 1960s to today's price?  OK, the Japanese guy bought it with the rest of the pennisula for something like a billion $$$, right.  Then he sold the kit and kaboodle to the Eastwood, Uberoth, et al syndicate for a big loss, right or wrong.  They built a new #5, built a seawall... and tweaked a few tees and greens, right?   At what price do they break even?  Where does the profit begin?  How much of $500 is profit and who gets that profit?  

I'd like to see a statistic for who pays the full freight directly out of their very own pocket.  What % of people get comp'd in some manner for any or all of the green fee there?  How many have shareholders or consumers of their companies product actually paying at the end of the money chain?  

To go along with Bill V.'s point further,  I recently walked right up to the Bandon Resort pro shop at 3Pm and asked if they had any kind of twilight rate after a certain hour.  I was told all three courses were open, I could tee off anytime, full freight for spring shoulder season $200.  As much as I want to see TD and C&C's work there, I said, NO.  I'm not paying that kind of dough for an early season round, wouldn't likely play well, alone, and basically just for the reason to say I did it.  About $200 might be in my rational range, under very special circumstances.  Not $500 ever.  Mike Keiser don't need my $200, and I don't care to fork it over. I went down to walk the Bandon State beach for free for a couple hours, hit a ball into the ocean from the parking lot, ate some good seafood in town and said hasta la vista to Bandon baby.  

I really believe too many things in this country and society in general are out of bounds of rationality or perspective, IMHO.  But, we all have our price break point VS what we may think is once in a lifetime.  For me, my once in a lifetime anything can't cost $100+ an hour with the prospect of leaving me unfullfilled.  

[Bill Gayne]

I went to the 1984 Superbowl in Tampa and the ticket was $60. The Minneapolis Superbowl was $190 in 1991. From what I understand the most recent Superbowl was $600. This year's season ticket renewal from the Redskins was $5,200 for ten games. After forty years of the family being Redskins season ticket holders, I cried uncle and gave up the tickets. I would gladly rather pay $500 at Pebble and not deal with the drunks. I figure with $5,200 I could buy a pretty good home TV system to watch the game and enjoy year round if I was so motivated.

I don't understand it but the Redskins like Pebble probably could raise the 50% and it would still be sold out.

[Dan Kelly]

Back when the Stars went to back to back Cup finals 7 years ago, my $30 season ticket seat went to $65 per game for the finals games.  It was (I think) $35 for round one, $45 for round two and $55 for round three.

All told, those 14-16 playoff games cost almost as much as the 41 game season.

And provided infinitely more entertainment.

Let's see: One year at Northwestern for my daughter will cost about 100 green fees at Pebble.

I think they're both overpriced.

But I'm going to pay the first, and I'd likely pay 1/100th of the second. Once. In the right company.

[Bob_Huntley]

Put me down with Dr. V.  

I'll just say no, thankyou.

Please break this down for me, I may have missed something.  What happened to PBGL that it went from a legendary ~$20 a round in the 1960s to today's price?  OK, the Japanese guy bought it with the rest of the pennisula for something like a billion $$$, right.  Then he sold the kit and kaboodle to the Eastwood, Uberoth, et al syndicate for a big loss, right or wrong.  They built a new #5, built a seawall... and tweaked a few tees and greens, right?   At what price do they break even?  Where does the profit begin?  How much of $500 is profit and who gets that profit?  

I'd like to see a statistic for who pays the full freight directly out of their very own pocket.  What % of people get comp'd in some manner for any or all of the green fee there?  How many have shareholders or consumers of their companies product actually paying at the end of the money chain?  

To go along with Bill V.'s point further,  I recently walked right up to the Bandon Resort pro shop at 3Pm and asked if they had any kind of twilight rate after a certain hour.  I was told all three courses were open, I could tee off anytime, full freight for spring shoulder season $200.  As much as I want to see TD and C&C's work there, I said, NO.  I'm not paying that kind of dough for an early season round, wouldn't likely play well, alone, and basically just for the reason to say I did it.  About $200 might be in my rational range, under very special circumstances.  Not $500 ever.  Mike Keiser don't need my $200, and I don't care to fork it over. I went down to walk the Bandon State beach for free for a couple hours, hit a ball into the ocean from the parking lot, ate some good seafood in town and said hasta la vista to Bandon baby.  

I really believe too many things in this country and society in general are out of bounds of rationality or perspective, IMHO.  But, we all have our price break point VS what we may think is once in a lifetime.  For me, my once in a lifetime anything can't cost $100+ an hour with the prospect of leaving me unfullfilled.  

RJD,

No one gets a discount because of his affiliation with the investment in the company. One of my companions at PB yesterday is a partner in the PB Company, he paid the full freight.

The Pebble Beach Company as you know also owns Spyglass Hill (not fully, until 2016), Spanish Bay and Old Del Monte. Being a member of the Duke Club gives discounts on some of the fees at the other courses.For instance a Dukes Club member might well receive an e-mail from the PB Shop saying that there are some times open on Thursday at 8.10 and 9.40 that can be had for $300.00 and not the $475 usual tariff.  This is something the airlines do on a regular basis. I am sure this is a business model out of Dick Ferris' approach when he was running United Airlines.

Bob

[Rick Shefchik]

Dick,

What happened was supply and demand, as one of our former economics students stated earlier.

When you own something that others want, and you find out that people will pay more for it than you've been charging, you raise the price until people stop paying.

We haven't reached that point yet at Pebble Beach. Maybe we never will.

We can talk all day about whether it's worth $550 to us as individuals (and, personally, it was to me when I paid close to that a couple of years ago -- for two rounds with my wife), but it's clearly worth that much to some people.

Pebble Beach is a product of capitalism, and both are part of what makes America a fine place to live.

[Evan_Smith]

I too would only do Pebble as a walkup with my Dad.  If I'm paying that much money, I want to be confirmed of having decent weather.  We did that at Royal County Down 3 years ago and ended up spending about $1000 cdn for the 2 of us (shirts, towels for family/friends and a caddie) and it was worth it because it was a beautiful day, we were golfing together, and the course was in great shape.  If the weather was bad, or the greens were no good, we were going to Ardglass to play.  Really expensive special courses are only worth it if you're with special friends on a nice day.  Anybody that thinks otherwise has too much money and that is the main reason that these courses charge what they do-because suckers will pay it.

I've played Pinehurst #2 a bunch of times and would not pay more than $150 to play it again.  It's a great course, but there is nothing special regarding scenery etc.  I would rather play 4 or 5 rounds on other area courses than one at #2.  In 1990 it was around $100 for #2 and about $40 for the others, and after the Tour Championships in '91,'92 and the Senior Open in '94 the price went up to close to $200.  After the '99 US Open the price was near $300 and I think it's around $400 today (with the others courses ranging from $140-$250).  It's just not worth it.  If other items in your life went up 300% in a little over 10 years would you still think that it's worth it.  Your $20,000 car now costs $80,000!!!!!!  Your $2 jug of OJ is now $8 and your $1 gallon of gas is now $4.  Well, that last one is almost true, and think about how mad that makes you!  If idiots like us stop paying the crazy amounts of money on these courses, in the future the price will come down.
 
I would pay the money at Bandon, TOC and other great seaside courses, because of the added views, but only if the weather was decent.  So I guess I'm an idiot too.  But I'd do it just the one time so I have the memory of the course for the rest of my life.

[John Kavanaugh]

Does Pebble even really make any money at $500 a round.  60,000 rounds is 30 million dollars....That is 3% of 900 million...Seems like they are spinning their wheels.  I'd say we owe them one for keeping the place public and hosting the events they do...Let me be the first to say -  Thanks Pebble.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Does Pebble even really make any money at $500 a round.  60,000 rounds is 30 million dollars....That is 3% of 900 million...Seems like they are spinning their wheels.  I'd say we owe them one for keeping the place public and hosting the events they do...Let me be the first to say -  Thanks Pebble.

I agree and do the math on high end clubs that cost $100k to join plus $10k/yr.  Amortizing the initiation over 25 years that comes to $14k/yr.  It would take 28 rounds to average $500/round, and I bet that a lot of the folks belonging to those sorts of clubs don't play anywhere near 28 rounds.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wayne,

Your math stinks...You say $100,000 down is only worth 8 $500 rounds per year for 25 years?  The interest is worth more than that.  You need to play way more then 28 rounds a year to break even....Hell, in April alone I could have played xxxxx rounds at Pebble if you include booze, food, carts, caddies and this and that.  A guy could do well only playing Pebble all year round if you could put up with the tourists and crap greens.

[Dan Smoot]

I have seen Pebble but not played it and perhaps I should.  The fact is that I would much sooner make every effort I could to try and play CP or MP.  Perhaps I've seen it too much on television - perhaps it is the fact that you have to pay stupid money to stay at the Lodge and if I'm going there I also want to play Spyglass which is also no bargain.  To me, I would sooner go to Bandon for a few days and play all 3 courses for not much more than one round at Pebble.  

When I saw the first post, my reaction was exactly the same.  I played 3 rounds in Bandon during March for less than the PB rate.  I have looked over PB twice, did not play and wasn't really even tempted.  I keep seeing an image of my wife's face, not saying anything but her thoughts screaming at me.  I would rather play at Bandon than anywhere.

If I had an opportunity to play Cypress Point at that expense it becomes much more attractive.  Is it the forbidden fruit?

[Wayne_Kozun]

Wayne,

Your math stinks...You say $100,000 down is only worth 8 $500 rounds per year for 25 years?  The interest is worth more than that.  You need to play way more then 28 rounds a year to break even....Hell, in April alone I could have played xxxxx rounds at Pebble if you include booze, food, carts, caddies and this and that.  A guy could do well only playing Pebble all year round if you could put up with the tourists and crap greens.

OK, amortizing $100,000 over 25 years with a 5% interest rate ups the annual cost of the initiation to $7,100.  Add in the $10k annual dues and you are looking at 34 rounds per year at $500 to break even.  This implicitly assumes that annual dues and Pebble green fees will grow at 5% big assumptions but Pebble's fees have grown at 8% per annum over the last 40 years if the green fee was, as was mentioned in this thread, $20 in the 60s - or at least 40 years ago in 1967.  And most of those years were in a period of much higher inflation than we have today.

Look at the bright side - if the fee grows at 8% in the future then in 2047 the fee will be about $10,862 ($500* 1.08^40)- making today's price seem like a bargain!

[Jim Nugent]

Does Pebble even really make any money at $500 a round.  60,000 rounds is 30 million dollars....That is 3% of 900 million...Seems like they are spinning their wheels.  I'd say we owe them one for keeping the place public and hosting the events they do...Let me be the first to say -  Thanks Pebble.

Are greens fees the only revenues they generate?  What about drinks, food, clothes, mementos, merchandise, hotel/lodge, pro tournaments?  Are there any tax benefits?  What has happened to the "value" of the course itself? Has it gone up?  

Also curious where the $900 mil (is that a real figure?) came from.  Entirely private funding?    

[Tim Bert]

I do view the pricing inline or even as a bargain in comparison with some other "once in a lifetime" events.  I also think supply and demand seems to be working just fine for them, and they could probably raise their price and still do just fine.

From a personal standpoint, I'm not comparing the cost of Pebble to the Super Bowl, Final Four, etc.  I'm comparing it to other great golf options.  The fact that I can play the three courses at Bandon at the "bargain" rate of $300 for 54 a day has to date left me making reservations there three times vs. 0 at Pebble.  I've read enough here to know that many on this site would say that is foolish - that those courses can't compare.  I guess what you don't know can't hurt you because I've derived enough enjoyment from my trips to Bandon that I don't feel like I've lost out.

The fact that I was afforded a true once in a lifetime opportnity at Sand Hills (if I wanted to pony up the cash at Pebble, it is only once in a lifetime if I choose to make it so) at a fraction of the price of Pebble made that trip a no-brainer.

If I live long enough, Pebble is definitely on my list.  If I don't make it, it isn't going to make the list of great regrets when I die.  That list is full of items I've sacrificed by spending so much time playing golf in my adult life!

There are still a lot of great public golf destinations out there I haven't played.  For now, the value of those other options continue to keep me away.  I view it more as if I were offered tickets to the entire NLCS vs. one game of the World Series or if I were granted lifetime seats at the NFC Championship game vs. a single viewing of the Super Bowl, I might opt for the former in each scenario.  Plus, I'm not yet convinced that I really believe Pebble Beach is the Super Bowl of golf in any respect other than cost.  I'd easily opt for TOC as single course that I haven't visited which I'd most like to play.

[Mark_F]

It seems pretty cheap compared to a round at Cape Kidnappers, which, for no-New Zealand residents is around $400.

I had thought that Pebble was well over the $1000 mark by the time you included a (mandatory?) stay in The Lodge, but $550 or so sounds pretty good.

[Tom Birkert]

I have two, conflicting thoughts on this. Firstly, part of me abhors the fact that it costs so much, that you have to stay on the grounds and that the rounds take so long there. However, having grown up playing in the UK I’ve probably played a fair few great golf courses which comparatively have cost me very little to play. Furthermore on previous trips to CA I have been fortunate enough to stay and play golf at some top courses gratis, so therefore I am justifying the cost of the green fee at Pebble by writing it off against the previous savings I have made. I figure I’m still going to be well, well in credit.

I wonder if distance of travel has something to do with it also? If it’s on your doorstep you’re less likely to pay through the nose for it, however if you’re flying for over 10 hours to get there maybe you’re more likely to consider it as an acceptable cost? I know that’s how I view it, I wonder if the same applies to visitors from the US when they come over this side of the Pond?

If I’m being honest, when I was invited on the trip I hesitated due to the amount of money it was going to cost and because my friends are only flying out for 5 days. When we managed to confirm that we would be able to play Cypress I booked my flight straight away, and I am very excited about the whole trip.

[Jfaspen]

I can see myself paying it once or twice.  Birthday #30 is coming up in less than 3 years.. I've said for awhile that I'd like it to be a trip out to Pebble to play some of the courses out there.  I could also see taking a future son out there at some point.

Bottom line is that you're paying for the experience.. I wouldn't make it my new home course, but I can't wait to hit the 2nd shot on 8, tee off on 18, etc..

jf

[Dan Kelly]

I could also see taking a future son out there at some point.

Could be a future daughter, eh?

[Jon Spaulding]

It seems pretty cheap compared to a round at Cape Kidnappers, which, for no-New Zealand residents is around $400.

I had thought that Pebble was well over the $1000 mark by the time you included a (mandatory?) stay in The Lodge, but $550 or so sounds pretty good.

$550 is for local residents that are allowed to make a tee time, or for someone who wants to travel to PB to get on the waiting list. If you're a non local, and want a tee time in advance, you stay at the hotel. I've been told that local PGA are not even allowed to make times. Everyone pays rack rate, even the minority investors as BH mentioned earlier.

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