[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick:

Las Vegas is definitely a town for you and your wild crowd. I'm far too much the shy, sensitive and retiring type to frequent a place like that.

TEPaul,

I"m not much of a gambler.

I am however, an ardent people watcher.

My wild days in Vegas are like my golfing future, behind me.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tommy,

Vegas is one of those places that you really gotta see it for yourself.

- Best collection of great resteraunts outside NYC
- Unreal shows that you can not get elsewhere Cirque de Soliel "O" is the Sand Hills/Cypress Point/Pine Valley of live entertainment!

- Great outdoor scenery around town. Red Rock Canyon, Lake Las Vegas, Hoover Dam

As for the golf, ther are a hundreds places to go first, but in your Whole Big World theory, it's a place you need to get to.

I've been to Vegas half a dozen times and have gambled once.

This says it all for me as well.  I never thought I would like Vegas but it is a spectacular place to visit - and I don't gamble either.

[Kalen Braley]

As much as its not my cup of tea, and I've been there 3 times, I would say it should be experienced.  And the best way to take it all in, for the first time, and this is the key, for the first time....

Is to rent a convertible, lower the top, wait till dark when the place is lit up, and have someone drive you up and down the strip, don't try driving yourself.  It will be a visual feast unmatched by anything I've ever seen.  The place really is unique...I'll give it that.

[redanman]

TEP

The best restaurants outside of NYC are in Chicago, because the restaurants in Chicago are better than NYC! (and SF for that matter, heck the NYC people are coming to Phila now) But they do have In-N-Out and Chipotle Grill

The shows?  I don't think you'd like the shows.

Outdoor scenery?  Other than Hoover Dam you can do better in lots of western areas.

Fake Boobs on dancing showgirls?  You can see fake boobs anywhere.  Heck, just go to King of Prussia and keep asking the women in Neiman-Marcus to take off their tops, eventually one will.

There is no single golf course you have to see.

I guess that leaves the Liberace Museum after all.
 
 

[John Kavanaugh]

If you can drive into town past midnight from the Arizona side.  The trip over Hoover Dam alone in the dark and then coming into Vegas is a great drive.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim Franklin,

They send Jets and limos to bring guys to Vegas who claim to have great betting systems and super money management skills.  If you spend enough time at the tables, they will own everything you have.... and more.
They'll even put you in luxurious suites, comp you for food & beverage, shows and golf.  They didn't build those spectacular facilities from charitable contributions.  
You've been lucky.  It happens.  
But, don't mess with The Law of Large Numbers.

Patrick -

I know that mathematics will get you if you give them a chance. I like to stay at the tables for a little, win some, get up and walk around, then go back for more. I understand that I will not win enough to change my life so I don't try. If I come back a couple grand ahead, life is good, but I still go to work on Monday .

[Kalen Braley]

TEP

The best restaurants outside of NYC are in Chicago, because the restaurants in Chicago are better than NYC! (and SF for that matter, heck the NYC people are coming to Phila now) But they do have In-N-Out and Chipotle Grill

The shows?  I don't think you'd like the shows.

Outdoor scenery?  Other than Hoover Dam you can do better in lots of western areas.

Fake Boobs on dancing showgirls?  You can see fake boobs anywhere.  Heck, just go to King of Prussia and keep asking the women in Neiman-Marcus to take off their tops, eventually one will.

There is no single golf course you have to see.

I guess that leaves the Liberace Museum after all.
 
 

Well said here, agree completely.

The biggest thing that strikes me, is you're standing in the middle of the desert, and then you see this massive monstrosity of buildings/pools/palm trees/lights/whatever on the strip and you think to yourself.

"What the hell is all this doing in the middle of the damn desert?"  Vegas is about as artifical as it comes and the whole town is one giant faux Paris, Egypt, NYC, Venice, etc, etc.  It all looks so out of place, but yet the sheer audacity of it combined with the sensory overload... its quite the conundrum.

[TEPaul]

redanman:

Hilarious post, all of it---and probably mostly true too.

By the way, if you're down in this neck of the woods let's meet at Neiman Marcus.

[Peter Pallotta]

"If you can drive into town past midnight from the Arizona side.  The trip over Hoover Dam alone in the dark and then coming into Vegas is a great drive"

John K's right. I did exactly that drive about 12 years ago. I should've been heading straight to Los Angeles, but had never been to Vegas (and I gambled in those days) so I took a late night detour over the Hoover Dam and into Vegas. It was/is quite the scene.

The rest of the night was good too: back then, there didn't seem anything better than a smiling cocktail waitress bringing you a comped drink and a pack of Camels while you sat at the black-jack table, paying for the cigarettes and leaving a big tip with the money you'd just won from the house.

They tore down The Sands Hotel a few months later.    

Peter

[Jimmy Chandler]

Jimmy,

I stand corrected. What I should have said was highly rated, great place to be out to dinner entertaining your customer on the companies dime.

Sort of like a CCFAD!!

As a value, food in Vegas is waaay out of line!

John -- I love the CCFAD analogy.  I wish I was in the type of business where I could get other people to pay for my dinners, but since I cannot, I have to be very aware of prices.  

W.Vostinak --

I have't been to Chicago, so I cannot compare the dining scene there, but I agree there are many great places to eat outside NYC, I just don't know if they're better than NYC, since Manhattan is so large and dense there are so many places to choose from in a relatively small geographical area.

From my limited experiences, SF and Philly do have great dining scenes, and I'd add DC to that list as well.

As for scenery, as I noted in my earlier post, don't forget Death Valley (if you're in Vegas in the winter months, at least).

[redanman]

Chicago beats every city in the USA for breadth and depth of cuisine.  Just ask a Chi-town guy, I only used to live there.   Generally it's much less expensive at the upper end vs. NYC.

[cary lichtenstein]

Chicago beats every city in the USA for breadth and depth of cuisine.  Just ask a Chi-town guy, I only used to live there.   Generally it's much less expensive at the upper end vs. NYC.

Absolutely, Chicago also rains supreme for cleaniness, beauty and the worst weather and traffic for golfers and bad backs.

[redanman]

Cary (et.al.)

For a good example, the eastern European ethnicities in Chicago are unmatched anywhere. The German restaurants are killer, too (Not exactly available in NYC).

The choices for Greek restaurants is out of this world.

A good Chicago pizza is a thing of beauty - and there are so many variations and you can get good thin crust pies. (Availability of good thin crust in NYC is overstated. There's a lot of pretenders.)

Traffic in Chicago bad?  Cary, you're all wet! Try D.C. and Lawn Ghiland.

[Yannick Pilon]

Ok guys,

I hate to be disrupting the restaurant comparison, but I have one question for the group.

For those who have played Shadow Creek, was it worth your hard earned 500$?  If so, why?  If not, why?

I certainly want to go to Vegas to see all of the Cirque du Soleil shows, being from Quebec and a big fan, but I am just wondering if Shadow Creek is worth the money.

YP

[Jon Spaulding]

Ok guys,

I hate to be disrupting the restaurant comparison, but I have one question for the group.

For those who have played Shadow Creek, was it worth your hard earned 500$?  If so, why?  If not, why?

I certainly want to go to Vegas to see all of the Cirque du Soleil shows, being from Quebec and a big fan, but I am just wondering if Shadow Creek is worth the money.

YP

I was OK with SC at the rate they charged, at least in a relative sense. At least the Mirage hotels are cheaper than Pebble . Design is tough yet enjoyable, with a good bit of risk/reward. (No interest in a Fazio debate this morning). Conditioning, service & pace are as good as you will find in the West.  I posted photos in an old thread if you want to get a sense of the place.

To answer the original thread question, I was told Joe Schmo with a PGA A card can do the walk in deal.

[redanman]

The experience from start to finish at Shadow Creek is unparalleled.  It is so nice and much less "Vegas" than I expected. No glitz, on scheisse, just a great golf experience.  Way cool.

There are many better golf courses architecture-wise, but just as every golfer worth his salt needs to pay his grand to stay at and play Pebble also the same for the number (?$800) it winds up being  for SC.

[rjsimper]

There are many better golf courses architecture-wise, but just as every golfer worth his salt needs to pay his grand to stay at and play Pebble also the same for the number (?$800) it winds up being  for SC.

The helping factor in this justification (I've not played SC, so salt grains accompany) is that most of us will end up in Vegas sometime or another ANYWAY...paying for a hotel etc...plus the MGM and other top tier properties in their family can be under 100 bucks during the week.

Very few people just "end up" at the Lodge at Pebble Beach.

[Jason Topp]

Ok guys,

I hate to be disrupting the restaurant comparison, but I have one question for the group.

For those who have played Shadow Creek, was it worth your hard earned 500$?  If so, why?  If not, why?

I certainly want to go to Vegas to see all of the Cirque du Soleil shows, being from Quebec and a big fan, but I am just wondering if Shadow Creek is worth the money.

YP

For me - yes.  It was a unique atmosphere on a good golf course that was very memorable.  I doubt I will ever do it again but as a once in a lifetime experience, it was worth it.

[John Foley]

Yannick - Not been to Shadow Creekk, but I payed the $350 for Cascata (got the room for around $100 like Ryan mentioned) and it was well worth the experiance. Had a pretyy detailed post a while back (18 months??). I don't think I would back for that price, but I may try and see Shadow Creek at some time.

However, I would forgoe both and go see O if you have not seen it. As amazing a night of entertainement as you will ever see.!!

[Jon Spaulding]

apples/apples:

Shadow Creek ~ $750 after 3hr round, caddie tip (excellent), room, taxes, etc. In off season, based on Mirage @ $90. If you hit a conference add $150 to this for a POS room.

Pebble ~ $1250 after 6hr round, caddie fee, caddie tip (provided you get a decent one), room, resort fee, yellow salamander conservation tax, spanish bay "coot shit" clean up tax, $15 vpn internet access fee, etc.

also, PB just bumped green fee to $475; rooms are up as well.

[ed_getka]

Jon,
  You make Pebble sound SO appealing!  
     
 If Pebble, Pinehurst and Kiawah Ocean keep going up like they have been, Shadow Creek is going to end up on a value list some day.

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon,
  You make Pebble sound SO appealing!  
     
 If Pebble, Pinehurst and Kiawah Ocean keep going up like they have been, Shadow Creek is going to end up on a value list some day.

The scary thing is PB is still wonderful. Next time I'm going to ditch the caddies & get off 1st/2nd of the day & see how that goes.

[ed_getka]

Pebble is pretty special in the end. I look forward to taking my youngest there one day. Of course, by then it will be $1,000 just for the green fee.
   I was surprised when you told me about the two night minimum now to book a round at Pebble. I just don't understand why they have such an issue with unbridled greed at Pebble. I know, I know about supply and demand, but at some point it becomes obscene.

[PThomas]

Pebble is pretty special in the end. I look forward to taking my youngest there one day. Of course, by then it will be $1,000 just for the green fee.
   I was surprised when you told me about the two night minimum now to book a round at Pebble. I just don't understand why they have such an issue with unbridled greed at Pebble. I know, I know about supply and demand, but at some point it becomes obscene.

TWO-nite min?  the chances of me ever playing there again went from unbelievably small to a when-hell-freezes over type of thing

[ed_getka]

Paul,
   In case you hadn't noticed, the green fee is now $475. Between the lodging requirement and the green fee they might as well go private (oh wait, scratch that, they make more money with the current set up).
   If Shadow Creek can just keep their green fee where it is for a couple of more years it will begin to look like a relative bargain. Especially, as Jon pointed out, when you look at the combined lodging/green fee costs at Pebble. I believe Pinehurst also has a lodging requirement before you can sniff #2.
    Thank goodness for places like Rustic Canyon and Wild Horse.

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