[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike and Slag,
The Coachella Valley is everbody from everywhere across the country. Lots of people from New York and Chicago who like the Palm Desert better then Florida, even if it is closer hence more accessible. I want to make it clear once again, I'm playing Devil's Adovcate/Patrick Mucci Jr. here, and it isn't fun, I'm just listing all of the tangables.

You don't think for one instant that some fun loving links lover from Chicago or Huuurrrruuummmph....Green Bay wouldn't love to visit the beautiful Oregon Coastline and play golf in a linksland atmosphere? Now I know a lot of GBer's that like Nebraska too, but the Closed for the Winter sign is usually up during that time.

[David Wigler]

Sand Hills to me is completely different.  It is the only golf option within 100 miles.  In addition, it caters to a national audiance and the fees are extremly reasonable.  Tommy is asking about an exclusive private club.  Sand Hills (And Praire Dunes) are world class golf courses but certainly not "Truly exclusive private clubs."

Why would I pay $60k downstroke, $400 per month year round, food minimum's etc. to play The Reserve at Bandon, when I can play Bandon Dunes and Pacific Dunes for just greens fees.  The math only works if it is a resort area where I have a second home and plan on playing 50+ rounds per year and Bandon just ain't gonna get that crowd.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

David, I should reclassify my poor wording. I'm thinking from a pure 2nd club, while I'm in town option.

[David Wigler]

Tommy,

To me, it still is a math problem.  An inexpensive national membership (Along the lines of Prairie Dunes) is roughly $5k plus $1.2k per year.  Bandon's green fees average $120 per round.  A private club would need additional revenue stream, so for arguments sake, let's say they put in a walking trail fee of $20 per round.  I would save $100 for each round I played at The Reserve at Bandon.  For the math to make sense, the course would have to be good enough for me to be willing to play 25 rounds per year on it (To cover the monthly's plus a share of the downstroke).  People on this site have claimed that the proper ratio right now is 4 rounds a Pacific to 1 round at Bandon (And Bandon is rated 6th by GW).  How good would the Reserve need to be for me to travel all the way to Bandon and then want to play 25 rounds per year on a course other than Pacific Dunes or Bandon Dunes?

I really believe that the combination of how good the other two courses are and the fact that it will never be a second home community (If I lived there 3 months out of the year, 25 rounds would be trivial) would doom a private club!

[Patrick_Mucci]

DMoriarty,

You must have missed the title of this thread.

A "Truely Exclusive Private Course"

There were no Mercedes, Lexus's, BMW's, Jaguar's, Cadillac's, etc., etc., in the parking lot.

Bandon is not an enclave of the wealthy.
Palm Springs is.

You're hallucinating if you think otherwise.

[JakaB]

How is this all that much different than Forrest Creek in Pinehurst....p.s. if you really care how much it costs you per round to join a private course...play somewhere else.  David, you must know I could play a Doak course everyday for the cost of my food minimum....but that ain't gonna happen, for as much not to fight the crowds as the architecture.

[David Wigler]

How is this all that much different than Forrest Creek in Pinehurst....p.s. if you really care how much it costs you per round to join a private course...play somewhere else.  David, you must know I could play a Doak course everyday for the cost of my food minimum....but that ain't gonna happen, for as much not to fight the crowds as the architecture.

Barney,

We do not disagree.  The reason cost is a factor is because of how good the public option is.  Reverse your situation.  If Victoria was public, is there any way you would ever pay money to join Quail Hollow?

As for Pinehurst, it is a year round retirment community that supports Forest Creek.  I do not see retirees flocking to the Oregon coast.

[JakaB]

David,

I am getting to be such an old man that sometimes I look out my window just wanting someone to step in my yard so I can go all old man on them....I'm not as bad as my neighbor who puts yellow warning flags out...which just makes the kids drive through his yard.   So yes, if Victoria was so crowded that I had to reserve a tee time a week ahead and Quail Hollow was such that I could play anytime, anyway with anybody I damn well please...I would pay money to join.  Proof again that its really never about the architecture.  The best play for Bandon would be to make Pacific Dunes very exclusive and build another public....they would sell out in a month.

[David Wigler]

The best play for Bandon would be to make Pacific Dunes very exclusive and build another public....they would sell out in a month.

That is the only way it might work!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat, As I listed, my wording was a bit off. I apologize for the confusion.

JakaB, I know about the Old Man thing! Its pretty fun yelling at the kids from the apartments next door who are tyring to sneak into the condo pool which I'm in charge of. I can only imagin what they are saying! My lumbago is killing me!

[JakaB]

I love the Forest Creek model....Be a member at a really great private course but still have the opportunity to play an even better course at your fancy.   The influx of Bandon players are probably even a cooler lot than the Pinehurst corporates...Why wouldn't a Californian that enjoys nice year round weather want a nice second home in that climate at a price much less than anything around home....I could see Huckaby in a few laying down 2K a month if that included home and membership...he already travels like a prince.

[Michael Dugger]

For what it's worth,

The Reserve, which will host The Tradition (4th senior major) the end of August uses a similar system as described above.  Two 18 hole golf courses, 1st half of the month one is for private use only, 2nd half of the month they switch.

IMHO, it's a damn nice system.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Never happen!  It simply goes against the spirit of Bandon and Keiser's dream.

JC

[DMoriarty]

DMoriarty,

You must have missed the title of this thread. . . . A "Truely Exclusive Private Course" . . .  . There were no Mercedes, Lexus's, BMW's, Jaguar's, Cadillac's, etc., etc., in the parking lot. . . . Bandon is not an enclave of the wealthy.
Palm Springs is. . . . You're hallucinating if you think otherwise.

Patrick, I didnt miss the title of the thread.  Did you missed my entire post?  "Mullen" is neither a haircut nor a town in the Coachella Valley, but a town in Nebraska near Sand Hills Golf Course.  Is Mullen, NE an "enclave of the wealthy?"

As for Bandon not being an enclave for the wealthy, you might want to skip the casino parking lot and check out the tarmac in North Bend-- quite a few prefer to access Bandon by private jet rather than El Camino.   Or you might swing by Bandon's front desk and check out the rates at the lodge and the course.  Who do you think is paying 300-400 dollars a day to stay and play at Bandon, the waitresses at the casino?  That is why locals like Slag and bargain shoppers like AClayman are screaming for an affordable Bandon course-- only the wealthy can afford Bandon.  

While it matters not to my point, you are wrong about Palm Springs as well.  In Southern California, the Coachella Valley is one of the most affordable places to live, retire, or have a second residence.  As for the golf and clubs, there are expensive ones, as well as many not so expensive.  Except for a few months a year, I could stay with my wife at La Quinta Resort and play unlimited golf golf there and at PGA West for cheaper than would be staying at Bandon and playing there.  

A five yr old, 4 bdrm 3 bath house in Rancho Mirage $389,000:

A 4 bdrm 3 bath house in West L.A., $1,249,000

[A_Clay_Man]

Just fyi, Palm Springs isn't just a destination spot anymore. That town is(or was a year ago) booming in all ways and directions. I call it L.A. east and if they are not careful they will crowd out the help, just like the Monterey Peninsula has.  They call'em snowbirds and they come from everywhere as Tommy stated, and the influx is more than palpable. Cannucks are BIG too.

JakaB- I bet if Pac Dunes announced that they will go private and memeberships will become on dec.31st at ten minutes to midnite. It would be sold out by the new year. Thats how good that idea is.

[DMoriarty]

Sand Hills to me is completely different.  It is the only golf option within 100 miles.  In addition, it caters to a national audiance and the fees are extremly reasonable.  Tommy is asking about an exclusive private club.  Sand Hills (And Praire Dunes) are world class golf courses but certainly not "Truly exclusive private clubs."

Why would I pay $60k downstroke, $400 per month year round, food minimum's etc. to play The Reserve at Bandon, when I can play Bandon Dunes and Pacific Dunes for just greens fees.  The math only works if it is a resort area where I have a second home and plan on playing 50+ rounds per year and Bandon just ain't gonna get that crowd.

David, you've lost me here.  Is Sand Hills really a golf option for those within 100 miles of Mullen, or is it a private club national club with a national membership?  What constitutes a "truly exclusive private club?"  I always thought that if I couldn't call up, make a tee time, and pay to play, it was a truly exclusive private club.  Are you saying there is some sort of cost minimum, or what?

More generally, I think it a mistake to evualate and predict what goes on in Bandon by purely economic criteria and traditional cost/benefit analysis.  Thus far, Bandon seems to be about golf, and people seem to be clamoring to play, design, or somehow be involved with it.  

Does it make sense for big name architects like C & C to go third and design an inland course there?  Maybe not if you think they are solely concerned with prestige and future marketability.  It makes perfect sense, though, if they are into challenging themselves and if they want to contribute to a place which is great for American golf.   By similar logic, I can see why golf nuts and purists would jump at the opportunity to belong to a private club at Bandon-- they might like to have more than just a passing connection with the place.

[Patrick_Mucci]

DMoriarty,

Bandon's a nice place to visit, for a few days of golf.

But, you're out of touch if you think it's a wealthy year round or seasonal community.  I'm familiar with the airport, I flew out of North Bend on a private jet, and it wasn't owned by a local.

And, I'm right about Palm Springs, it's been an enclave of the wealthy for about 50 years.

Please, confine your arguing with me to an issue where you have, at least, a remote to reasonable chance of being correct.

Your position on this one is foolish.

[DMoriarty]

Bandon's a nice place to visit, for a few days of golf.

But, you're out of touch if you think it's a wealthy year round or seasonal community.  I'm familiar with the airport, I flew out of North Bend on a private jet, and it wasn't owned by a local.

And, I'm right about Palm Springs, it's been an enclave of the wealthy for about 50 years.

Please, confine your arguing with me to an issue where you have, at least, a remote to reasonable chance of being correct.

Patrick.  I did not say anything about Bandon being a year round or even seasonal community for the rich.  I said that private course could succeed, if it used Sand Hills as a business model (limited membership and facilities, cabins or cottages for member's use. ) [Tommy suggested luxury home sales, I didnt.  I have doubts that this would work.]  

Do you really think that the members at Sand Hills hang out there year round or even seasonally, or do they pop in, stay at the cabins, play a lot of golf, have a few drinks on Ben's porch, and pop out?  Why couldnt the same thing work at Pacific, where they would have more courses to play?  

As for Palm Springs, your bald pronouncement that you are right and I am foolish is entirely convincing, and your powers of persuasion are sophisticated, refined, and impressive.  "An enclave for the wealthy for the last 50 yrs . . . ."  Have you been watching lifestyles of the rich and famous again?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat,
Where did you hear there was no land cost at Friars Head?

As far as Bandon, try to think out of the box here. Anything similar to what someone would buy as a second home to spend 2-5 weeksat in a year that could afford it. My meaning has one where not so much of the luxuory thing is being talked about here. I already apologzed for mis-wording it. Makeit nice housing that you wouldn't be afraid to stay in unlike the fishing cabins we stay at in Florence, which are two bedorom about 600 sq foot! You couldn't visualize something like that in Bandon?

As I type this, I can picture Josh laughing his ass off at me, and Mike Keiser doing the same, just knowing they are lurking! Josh, email me if you see this.

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