[Glenn Spencer]

Several of you have mentioned courses from our goal of goals, the wonderous public golf courses of Michigan. Shepard's Hollow, Tullymore, Eagle Eye and Red hawk are on our 'want to' list, along with such notables as Timberstone, Pilgrim's Run, Black Lake [oops, another 'evil' designer, that Reese Jones.....sorry], and if we can summon the money for fees, Forest Dunes, Bay Harbor and of course Arcadia Bluffs.

Michigan seems to have better public golf courses that anywhere. We have so far only managed to get a 'night and day' trip up from Cincy to play a Southern one, and chose a simple one to start. The Majestic lived up to it's name, if in no other way, just by have 1500 acres of beautiful, animal rich, land. We also found it enjoyable, all 27 holes. If this is #25 in Michigan [according to Michigan Golf Magazine] then we cannot WAIT for the really good ones  

If there are other public 'must plays' with GF under $100, I will certainly like to hear of them from you.

Doug

Doug,

You would be in hog-heaven in Indianapolis.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glan,
Art Hills doesn't even come close to the style and brand of Ted Robinson brand of golf architecture. Some here will tell you of some course in Salem, Oregon called Trysting Tree and that it's not bad, or another one in Bend.

He is the epitomy of landscape architect run amouk in the golf industry.





If the pictures aren't enough, then I can provide a design philosophy for you if needed.

That is interesting stuff there. However, I would need to see much more from Mr. Robinson to have him supplant Hills in my mind. A quality effort, but I will need to see more.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Glen,
Trust me. Hills is not even close to as bad as Robinson. We are talking B-A-D....

[Doug Ralston]

Glenn;

I have played Purgatory and Prairie View [birthday freebie!] in Indy as of now, as well as some other great Indiana publics [Sultan's Run, Otter Creek, Coyote Crossing are some]. The Fort, Bear Slide, Harrison Hills, the Liddy course in Peru {?}, and college courses at Purdue and Notre Dame are on our list. When the French Lick redesign is done, I want to see it......never got to before it.

Which other publics are 'must plays' there?

[Doug Ralston]

Sorry, do not mean to 'hijack' the thread topic.

[Glenn Spencer]

Doug,

Could you let me know what you thought of Purgatory and Prairie View. I am playing Prarie View on Friday. The Liddy that I know of is in Lebanon and that is the Trophy Club. I am playing 36 there on Sat. Chicago against Ohio boys. I don't know of many others, you pretty much have it covered. Brickyard is supposedly pretty good, although I haven't played it. Trophy Club is sweet though, if you haven't seen it. I love it there, I was there a month ago and already going back.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glen,
Trust me. Hills is not even close to as bad as Robinson. We are talking B-A-D....

I will take your word for it, you know better than me. Is there a course near Ohio by Robinson? What is the worst Robinson that I could ever hope to play?

[Doug Ralston]

Glenn;

Actually, the Liddy course I meant in Peru is Rock Hollow. I just couldn't remember the name for a bit.

Prairie View was a nice layout kept in great condition. It is $90 regularly, which is too much for my budget. But I found a free birthday special, and my friend and I split the savings. At $45 it is well worth the price. You will surely enjoy it.

Another fun thing for us po folk. Because it is quite 'upscale' all the balls I found on the course were much nicer than the ones I get out of the $.50 box! ROFL

Enjoy

Doug

[Glenn Spencer]

How about Purgatory? Thanks for that Prarie View preview, I am looking forward to seeing it. $90 regularly, that is CCFAD territory there, I had no idea it was that expensive. Oh well, it sounds like we will like it.

[Doug Ralston]

I liked Purgatory better. It is very fun to play, if you laugh at the 12 inch fescue  . Actually, it was so interesting and different for us, that we hardly noticed the chopping sound we were making.

On the other hand, Kern moved a LOT of dirt in this one; the mounds being used to isolate the holes [which it does very well] and protect environmental areas. We considered playing from the 7750 yd tees, but we could not reach ANY fairway from any tee rofl. Just teasing, we played from about 5500 yds as i recall, that being about my limit.

But if you come over to Cincy, definitely play Stonelick Hills, which is better than any public within 40 miles of the City. No name designer/owner did some really special things with the course. And of course, who could resist the island par-5 #9. There are so many cleverly layed out holes I do not for certain know which i like best. But it only currently is behind Eagle Ridge, Dale Hollow and The Tennessean in my 'Best I Have Played' list.

Enjoy

Doug

[Glenn Spencer]

I have played that one. I just moved down here and the club I was going to join, now has an ex-brother-in-law as member instead of a brother-in-law. I practice at Stonelick probably 3 days a week. If you are ever out there, I will be the biggest one on the range, you can't miss me. What holes did you like out there? I liked 1, hated 2, liked 3, hated 4, liked 5,6,7 and 8. Didn't think too much of 9. I loved 10 and 11. 12 and 13 OK. 14 and 15 were great. 16 too. 17 not bad and 18 horrible.

[Jim Sweeney]

Doug and Glenn:

I have spoken to Mr. Hills about Fox Run. He aknowledged the difficulty of the terrain and used number 18 as an example.

I had this conversation with him during the NCAA Championship at his Champions Gate (nee Champions)  GC in Nicholasville, KY, which is a fine golf course on a very good property.

There is a real Jekyl and Hyde aspect to Hills's career- some very fine and some very poor courses, and a lot in between. Personally I think his lesser efforts reflect more about the land and the needs of the developers (Fox Run), and he has done better work where he had more of a free hand (Champions Gate).

T Fox Run, I think Kenton County expected way to much from a marginal property.

The impressive thing I got out of the conversation with Hills was that he was very humble and put on no airs about his work- the good, the bad, or the in-between.

BTW, Hills also had a hand in Traditions GC in Hebron, KY, which is quite good but not outstanding, and the newer nine at Highlands CC in Ft; Thomas, KY, which is horrible but on a horrible property.

[Glenn Spencer]

Is that Old Silo down in Lexington any good? I don't know who did it, but I have heard it was good. I think it is pretty reasonable as well. The course at Fairfield Greens or whatever they call it might be right up your alley. It is pretty short and somewhat tricky. It has a few questionable shots, but some holes are just fabulous there. I really liked it and I was surprised, some of the holes have a great classic feel to them, of course some don't.

[Glenn Spencer]

Doug and Glenn:

I have spoken to Mr. Hills about Fox Run. He aknowledged the difficulty of the terrain and used number 18 as an example.

I had this conversation with him during the NCAA Championship at his Champions Gate (nee Champions)  GC in Nicholasville, KY, which is a fine golf course on a very good property.

There is a real Jekyl and Hyde aspect to Hills's career- some very fine and some very poor courses, and a lot in between. Personally I think his lesser efforts reflect more about the land and the needs of the developers (Fox Run), and he has done better work where he had more of a free hand (Champions Gate).

T Fox Run, I think Kenton County expected way to much from a marginal property.

The impressive thing I got out of the conversation with Hills was that he was very humble and put on no airs about his work- the good, the bad, or the in-between.

BTW, Hills also had a hand in Traditions GC in Hebron, KY, which is quite good but not outstanding, and the newer nine at Highlands CC in Ft; Thomas, KY, which is horrible but on a horrible property.

Jim,
Thanks for the input. I did not know that Hills was involved in either. The thing is, I like Fox Run 1-14 and 16. 18 is such an abomination that I don't go there unless forced. That Highlands course does not look like my cup of tea either. My mom has a 4 person pass there from some bidding thing and I am scared to play it. Champions is the course that Tom Doak was referring to in Confidential Guide, right? Is Persimmon Ridge any good? Didn't Hills do that one? Would you say that Longaberger is Jekyl or Hyde, this could be one potential hole to that theory.

[Jim Sweeney]

Glenn:

Haven't played Old Silo, but I've heard many good things about it. Designed by Graham Marsh. It's actually about 1/2 hour east of Lexington on I-64.

Don't know Fairfield Glenn.

JIm

[Glenn Spencer]

I am not shocked that you don't know Fairfield. It is interesting though. Old Silo is Graham Marsh, wow, I will really have to try and play that then. I have been hearing about that one for a while now.

[JLahrman]

Glenn, I played Purgatory a couple of years ago.  It's actually a good layout despite the gimmickness of the Purgatory theme.  There are quite a few decent holes.  A few too many extraneous bunkers (why do we need bunkers behind the green on 480-yard into the wind par 4s?) but all in all I liked the course much better than I thought I would.  My friends and I played at the 7,300 yardage, which sounds like a lot but when you hit driver ten or twelve times instead of six there's about 300 yards right there.  That was back when I could make solid contact with my driver, but I digress.

I will be in Indy for a wedding in October, hoping to see Trophy Club and The Fort while I'm in town...

[John_Conley]

I just can't get over the anger from Glenn toward Hills!  Anyway, much of the work in Florida credited to Arthur Hills was done - at least in part - by Mike Dasher.  Mike is in the book "Driving the Green" and told me he did work on the Golf Club at Cypress Head and the Dunes at Seville.  Also, Hills gets credit for the first 54 holes at Bonita Bay - which I love.

Is it possible Hills Ohio does not equal Hills Florida?  For one, we have flatter sites.  But beyond that I'm wondering about the authorship.

Mike Dasher now designs on his own and has done three wonderful courses around Orlando called Eagle Dunes, North Shore, and Highlands Reserve.  (He also did a fourth one named Provident that I haven't played yet.  It is near Reunion and Champions Gate.)

I like Hills courses.  At least the ones I've played.

[Mike Boehm]

Several of you have mentioned courses from our goal of goals, the wonderous public golf courses of Michigan. Shepard's Hollow, Tullymore, Eagle Eye and Red hawk are on our 'want to' list, along with such notables as Timberstone, Pilgrim's Run, Black Lake [oops, another 'evil' designer, that Reese Jones.....sorry], and if we can summon the money for fees, Forest Dunes, Bay Harbor and of course Arcadia Bluffs.

Michigan seems to have better public golf courses that anywhere. We have so far only managed to get a 'night and day' trip up from Cincy to play a Southern one, and chose a simple one to start. The Majestic lived up to it's name, if in no other way, just by have 1500 acres of beautiful, animal rich, land. We also found it enjoyable, all 27 holes. If this is #25 in Michigan [according to Michigan Golf Magazine] then we cannot WAIT for the really good ones  

If there are other public 'must plays' with GF under $100, I will certainly like to hear of them from you.

Doug

Doug -

Welcome to the group.

As far as public courses around Metro Detroit go, I think Shepherd's Hollow is easily the best.  Any combination of 2 nines will make for an enjoyable round, but if you're making the trip all the way up from Cincy, I'd try to squeeze in all 27.  I think holes 10-18 is the best of the three nines.

The Orchards by Robert Trent Jones Jr. is probably my second favorite public course in the area.  It hosted the US Public Links a couple years back.  It is a little more forgiving than Shepherd's Hollow but still a good challenge.

If you enjoyed the Majestic, you should also consider giving Moose Ridge by Ray Hearn and The Preserve by Palmer's design firm a shot.  They are both within 10 minutes of the Majestic, and I believe as good, if not better courses.  You could easily make a 36 hole day out of those two courses to make the trip from Cincy worth your while.

Mike

[noonan]

#2 at Pipestone....

You can land the drive or 2nd shot in the right rough and the ball will run into the pond on the left side of the hole.

 

[noonan]

#2 at Pipestone


#18 at Pipestone - 90 degree left turn at 250 yards

[Doug Ralston]

Where to start?

Old Silo is a really nice course by Graham Marsh, with 90+ very tough grass inlet bunkers guarding medium to large greens on a tough layout [slopes 139 tips].

But cripe, if you are gonna go east on I-64 from Lexington, why not do it right. Hidden Cove and Eagle Ridge are not that far!! The Kentucky State Signature Series is some of the best golf around. Eagle Ridge, Dale Hollow [S part of State] Hidden Cove, and Wasioto Winds have all been in Golf Digest 'Best New' lists. With Mineral Mound in W KY deserving it. And they continue to work upgrading courses and planning new ones. The State of Kentucky is serious about having a 'Trail' to be proud of.

Art Hills indeed created some special private courses in Kentucky. Champion's Trace in Nicholasville has a very good rep, Persimmon Ridge is considered the most challenging course in the state, but all may be topped by the new course in Bowling Green called Old Stone. For more info on these courses and golf in Kentucky, see the very best golf website any state has; golfkentuckylinks.com

My trips to Michigan will definitely include a 27-hole day at Shepard's Hollow. Another S Michigan course I think is absolutely essential is Eagle Eye.....looks astounding. Moose Ridge has not quite had the universal acclaim that Shepard's Hollow and Eagle eye have, but looks very tough.

Now I must tell you something hurtful. I purposely left out 'The Gailes' because I do NOT like the 'true British' nature of it's layout. I think too much randomness [mid-fairway pot bunkers and the like] makes golf more work than fun. Besides, i am a mountain person at heart, and love vertical golf.

Oh, and how can you NOT love #2 at Stonelick Glenn? That little tree will grow, you know. Think how the play of that hole will be dictated by growth over time. And i love the position of the green there. I will admit i like #7 for personal reasons. Never had an ace, but did hole out a 125yd 9-iron on #7 Stonelick Hills for EAGLE! For me, that's a career shot.

Please before you are too critical of Hills, try Eagle Ridge. If you have an ounce of sporting laughter in you, it will be a blast. Eighteen holes of 'daredevil golf' over the most outre terrain anyone ever expected a course to be designed upon. I think maybe Art credits Steve for most of it. I don't care who gets the credit, I just want to give them a lot of it, and return again and again.

Doug

[Jim Sweeney]

Wow- how did I leave out Persimmon Ridge? Very difficult, but very fun. Soon to be home of the KGA, KPGA, and KSGA. Also home to the Proffesional Clubmaker's Society.

Had to pass up an opportunity to try out Olde Stone recently, but certainly at the very top of my KY "to do" list.

[Glenn Spencer]

Jim,

I got invited to play Olde Stone with 7 other guys, you can take my place

Doug,

It is too late for me, I have banned myself from Hills antics. I refuse to try anything out. Longaberger was supposed to be one of the best and I thought it was just a well-groomed version of the same nonsense.

John Conley,

If you want to question the authorship, come on up. I would love for you to see the holes Jerry was nice enough to post in person. The guy has designed 160 some odd courses, he is bound to have a few that are not too hateful. I just don't think of him as someone that can design anything that is taken seriously unless it is on the best property since Cypress Point and even then it is hard for him.

[JLahrman]

Jerry,

Please don't leave out the absurdities of holes 3, 6, and especially 9 at Pipestone.  I haven't played enough Hills to get on him the way some do around here, and I actually like several of the holes at Pipestone (5,8,10,16).  However, there are some ridiculous holes out there, two of which you pictured nicely.  The rest are just dull.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()