[Greg Tallman]

Michael:

Again, I have zero doubt Charleston - and likely other places in the great state of South Carolina - are my kind of place.  Even more importantly, they are most definitely my wife's kind of place.  So I do hope to get their some day, and it's likely I will.

In any case, I don't think I have judged SC by Myrtle... in fact I am pretty much leaving that out of my comparison - that is unless you think the Myrtle area has courses that can compete against the greats in Monterey and other CA sites.

One more thing also - "bang for the buck" IS what I am after way more often than not when I travel.  I've been extremely lucky to sample the high end here and other places... but that doesn't mean I don't seek out good deals.  Why the heck do you think I went to Bandon in winter?

 

And how about bang for the peso Seņor Huckaby? With a bit of notice I can assure you of that here in Cabo. If June is still a possibility prior to the 20th would avoid maintenance schedules.

Perhaps my intro sentence could have been worded a bit differently given some of the perceptions of life south of the border.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg:

Well, there's also zero doubt I do need to do that. But until I do, I shall stick to my guns.  I've seen everything one can possibly see about Kiawah Ocean except seeing it in person, and I shall have to remain a doubting Thomas that it is better than Pebble.  The rest flows down from there.  If all of those are indeed better than Spyglass, Pasatiempo, etc. well... I need to see the wounds in their hands and side... whoops, got a little too carried away there.  What I mean is I give great credence to those who have seen all of them, but I will have to agree to disagree until proven otherwise.

BUT... as I've said many times, I can see that it must be very close at the very least.

Tom, I would not go as far as to label it better than California based on th trip I mapped out... and that is prbably as good a 6 day junket as you could put together. Damn good but better than PB, SP, Pasa et al? Don't believe so... but that is one opinion. Both great options.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Greg:

Methinks we are copacetic on this.  I know one could make some VERY good golf trips in SC.  But at the very top, CA wins.  That's really the only point I've been trying to make.

As for bang for the peso, that has sadly fallen through... until next year perhaps....  

[Jason Topp]

I haven't read this entire thread, but, without a doubt - the real answer is Arizona.

The most important factor in determining a destination for a golf trip is whether you will GET TO PLAY GOLF.

In Arizona, one is almost guaranteed of a sunny day that is pleasantly playable from September through May.  Throw in the beauty of the desert, adequate courses and great food and the decision is clear.

In my experience, California courses are a mud bog all winter (except for Palm Springs) and offer glacial pace of play.

South Carolina has too short of a season in which one can expect sufficiently nice weather to make it worth plunking down the advance money necessary for a golf trip.

Florida, Alabama and Georgia have rain.  Texas can vary from nice to very cold in the January/February months.  New Mexico courses are at high enough elevation so that it is too cold in the heart of winter.  

[John Kavanaugh]

In my experience, California courses are a mud bog all winter (except for Palm Springs) and offer glacial pace of play.

That is fantastically untrue this year.  Did you watch the Nissan?  I did have one slow round at Rustic at around noon on a Saturday but the rest of the week was perfectly paced.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jason:

We definitely do have glacial pace of play on weekends here in general, and a lot of courses do indeed drain horribly.  BUT... I'd guess that pace of play issues aren't limited to our state, and as for drainage, the great ones do not suffer from those issues.  Even Pasatiempo which used to be a serious bog in the winter has improved mightily in recent years.

[Jason Topp]

In my experience, California courses are a mud bog all winter (except for Palm Springs) and offer glacial pace of play.

That is fantastically untrue this year.  Did you watch the Nissan?  I did have one slow round at Rustic at around noon on a Saturday but the rest of the week was perfectly paced.

This year is the exception, not the rule

[John Kavanaugh]

Isn't that always the case with me.

[Jason Topp]

I haven't read this entire thread, but, without a doubt - the real answer is Arizona.

The most important factor in determining a destination for a golf trip is whether you will GET TO PLAY GOLF.

In Arizona, one is almost guaranteed of a sunny day that is pleasantly playable from September through May.  Throw in the beauty of the desert, adequate courses and great food and the decision is clear.

In my experience, California courses are a mud bog all winter (except for Palm Springs) and offer glacial pace of play.

South Carolina has too short of a season in which one can expect sufficiently nice weather to make it worth plunking down the advance money necessary for a golf trip.

Florida, Alabama and Georgia have rain.  Texas can vary from nice to very cold in the January/February months.  New Mexico courses are at high enough elevation so that it is too cold in the heart of winter.  

Jason

With all thoese requirements I am surprised you leave the house!  Or do you have extra insurance for that?  HA!

Sean

Sean - don't get me wrong, I'll go on a trip to any of those states.  In Fact I have gone to every one.  The topic is the best destination.

Nonetheless, despite better courses existing elsewhere, when it comes down to putting cash down for a plane ticket, Arizona has other states trumped when it comes to weather.

[Jason Topp]

Jason:

We definitely do have glacial pace of play on weekends here in general, and a lot of courses do indeed drain horribly.  BUT... I'd guess that pace of play issues aren't limited to our state, and as for drainage, the great ones do not suffer from those issues.  Even Pasatiempo which used to be a serious bog in the winter has improved mightily in recent years.

Tom:

Pace of play issues exist everywhere, but in my limited experience, California is unique.  The worst was a 5:15 round at Spyglass at 6:30 am (first group off) with 3 members from SFGC.  That experience may have tainted my perception for all time.

[Greg Tallman]

If weather is your primary concern... get your passports updated gentlemen.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Nonetheless, despite better courses existing elsewhere, when it comes down to putting cash down for a plane ticket, Arizona has other states trumped when it comes to weather.

Methinks our man has a point there... although SoCal could give it a serious run.  Not much bad weather there... or at least not much more than AZ.  But Greg makes a great point also... Mexico likely rules the roost re weather.  But maybe Hawaii also competes?

And maybe we do have the worst of slow play, particularly at the famous courses, which is what we're considering.  Damn.

[Andy Troeger]

I haven't read this entire thread, but, without a doubt - the real answer is Arizona.

The most important factor in determining a destination for a golf trip is whether you will GET TO PLAY GOLF.

In Arizona, one is almost guaranteed of a sunny day that is pleasantly playable from September through May.  Throw in the beauty of the desert, adequate courses and great food and the decision is clear.

In my experience, California courses are a mud bog all winter (except for Palm Springs) and offer glacial pace of play.

South Carolina has too short of a season in which one can expect sufficiently nice weather to make it worth plunking down the advance money necessary for a golf trip.

Florida, Alabama and Georgia have rain.  Texas can vary from nice to very cold in the January/February months.  New Mexico courses are at high enough elevation so that it is too cold in the heart of winter.  

Jason,
You kind of contradict yourself here. You critique all these areas for periods of the year where they are unplayable, however then leave out that Arizona in June-Aug would be one of the last places I'd want to go!

I agree with your premise by the way. Although I think the point of a thread like this is "where's the best golf" without all the other factors considered.

One thing I really like about Albuquerque is that in the winter its not far to get to warmer weather south and in the summer its not far to get to cooler weather north, and in between its beautiful almost all the time!

[Paul Payne]

John,

Don't forget 'Bama's bunkersless course in Huntsville.

[rjsimper]

Many would consider June-September unplayable in Arizona.  Not I, but many would.

Having said this, climate can count no more in it's favor than a destination where November-March is unplayable due to winter.

[Kalen Braley]

I haven't read this entire thread, but, without a doubt - the real answer is Arizona.

The most important factor in determining a destination for a golf trip is whether you will GET TO PLAY GOLF.

In Arizona, one is almost guaranteed of a sunny day that is pleasantly playable from September through May.  Throw in the beauty of the desert, adequate courses and great food and the decision is clear.

In my experience, California courses are a mud bog all winter (except for Palm Springs) and offer glacial pace of play.

South Carolina has too short of a season in which one can expect sufficiently nice weather to make it worth plunking down the advance money necessary for a golf trip.

Florida, Alabama and Georgia have rain.  Texas can vary from nice to very cold in the January/February months.  New Mexico courses are at high enough elevation so that it is too cold in the heart of winter.  

Jason,
You kind of contradict yourself here. You critique all these areas for periods of the year where they are unplayable, however then leave out that Arizona in June-Aug would be one of the last places I'd want to go!

I agree with your premise by the way. Although I think the point of a thread like this is "where's the best golf" without all the other factors considered.

One thing I really like about Albuquerque is that in the winter its not far to get to warmer weather south and in the summer its not far to get to cooler weather north, and in between its beautiful almost all the time!

Well said Andy,

Sure CA can be a slog December thru March, but other than that its fine.  

And if I had a choice it would be 50 and damp over 115 and dehydrated.  

[Tom Huckaby]

If all of those are indeed better than Spyglass, Pasatiempo, etc. well...

it's the etc. that needs 'splainin', TH.  One might argue Spyglass, too ........

Maybe so.  My guess though is that the smaller one makes the list, the better off CA is.... and it holds its own just fine in larger lists as well.  But you surely no better than I do.. and you are surely unbiased against CA as well.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

I feel a lot better with that last assurance.

 

One thing is clear also - through all of this I have gained a lot of respect for SC top-end golf.  Because as much crap as we give back and forth, I do trust your opinions - even keeping your CCE concept in mind.  Those courses must be damn great, and it behooves me to see for myself.  That shall be made top priority.  Sadly my priorities rarely get that much weight... but one never knows.

TH

[Tim Gavrich]

I apologize for dragging this to the top once again, but would like to offer my two cents.  I will grant Mr. Huckaby's assertion about the supremacy of the top-notch courses in California.  However...

In my opinion, our definition of "tourist golf" is not exactly right.  Sure, if money isn't an object and if great architecture is the aim of the trip, the Monterey Peninsula likely beats South Carolina every time.  However, if we're really going to identify "The Greatest State for Tourist Golf," we need to incorporate two factors that seem to have been glossed over, if I have read this thread closely enough (which may or may not be true ).

1. Money-- The way I see it, most people who want to go on a memorable 3-5 day golf trip simply cannot afford to go to the Monterey Peninsula repeatedly.  Sure, maybe one in a lifetime is feasible, but I think that in the judgment of "The Greatest State for Tourist Golf," that prohibitive expense must, for the sake of fairness, make the supremacy of those golf courses considerably less important.

2. Intent of Trip-- I will grant that there are all kinds of mindsets of golf-trippers (let's say for the sake of argument that it is a foursome on this trip).  Some, like us, go on golf trips with the primary intention of playing the most architecturally meritous golf courses possible.  However, we are certainly not the norm.  I think it's fair to say that on the average, a foursome of golf-trippers are looking for A) golf courses that will be enjoyable and relatively inexpensive, B) food that will be good and relatively inexpensive, C) lodging that will be good and relatively inexpensive, and D) some non-"playing golf" activities that will be enjoyable and relatively inexpensive.

I will admit first-off that I have never been on a golf trip in California (I have played golf in California, but both times it was during a Gavrich family reunion), and am not nearly as well-acquainted with points B, C, and D, as outlined above as I probably should be in order to make this argument.  But since I still think I have a relevant perspective on this and am quite stubborn, here goes.  (I should admit at this time that I am writing this from my family's condo at Pawleys Plantation, so you may call me a homer, if you wish.  I will not be offended)

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that our four golf-trippers are taking a four-day golf trip, and plan to play six rounds of golf over those four days (not everyone loves to do 36 a day).  They want A, B, C, and D in sufficient measure.  I'll go point-by-point on this, and will only discuss the Grand Strand, which is my area of expertise.

A: Golf courses that are enjoyable and relatively inexpensive-- You can achieve this any time of year on the Grand Strand.  Let's say that of the six rounds of golf, our foursome wants, in order to keep the cost reasonable, to play two "very good" courses, three "good" courses, and one "decent" course.  I'll confine my responses (they are widely debatable, I'll admit) to the south end of the Grand Strand (below and including Highway 501).  "Very good" courses include Caledonia, True Blue, TPC Myrtle Beach, Pawleys Plantation, Heritage Club, World Tour, Wild Wing Avocet, and Kings North-Myrtle Beach National.  "Good" courses include, Wachesaw East, Prestwick, The Witch, Blackmoor, Indian Wells, River Club, Willbrook, and Arrowhead.  "Decent" courses include all the rest, which is a couple dozen courses ranging from "decent" to "bad."  Needless to say, there are perhaps hundreds of combinations you could do.  Granted, not all of the "very good" courses are "very good" in terms of architecture, but the Average joe foursome would agree that they are "very good" courses.

B: Food that will be good and relatively inexpensive-- Food for virtually every taste.  There are a couple BBQ joints: a Sticky Fingers up towards 501, but my favorite is Hog Heaven, which serves about the best fried chicken I have ever had, and some mighty good pulled pork.  Lunch at Caledonia is great as well; the food's very good, and you can watch people play #18 at the same time.  Also, there are buffets agogo throughout the Grand Strand.  And there are some great upscale restaurants as well (my family loves Louis's, Charleston chef Louis Osteen's place in Pawleys Island).

C: Lodging that will be good and relatively inexpensive-- There are very inexpensive motels/hotels around that will be fine if all you want is a serviceable place to sleep.  There are also condos and villas of varying sizes and price levels at many of the golf courses as well, if you want to spend a little more time in your room.

D: Non-"playing golf" activities that will be good and relatively inexpensive-- Lots of beaches, Brookgreen Gardens (huge, sculpture-laden former estate and plantation), outlet shopping malls, Martin's PGA Tour Superstore (an enormous mecca of golf equipment that is a lot of fun to peruse), Ripley's Aquarium, and a lot of standard nightlife (dance clubs, strip clubs, bars) for every type of group.  You shouldn't ever be bored.

If you're still reading, bless you.  But the bottom line is that you could take a dozen trips to the Grand Strand and they'd be more varied (both golf-wise and otherwise) than most any other golf trip to any other state.  I'm sure there are other places in California that would make great golf trip destinations, but I truly believe that the Grand Strand serves a wider range of people than just about anywhere else.

Cheers.

Tim Gavrich

[Tom Huckaby]

Hi Tim:

I read all of that, and I appreciate the blessing.  

Just note one thing:  I've never been to the Grand Strand, and I agree with you.  My point here from the beginning has been that if money is no object, CA wins.  I've said several times if money is an object, we're not in the Top 25.

So if you were trying to argue against me, well.. it was unnecessary.  But it was a good read anyway!

 

I too think there are many ways to define "tourist golf" and thus many different answers to this.  I kinda like your definition the best.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't understand the need to play many different courses on the same trip.  I'm really looking forward to playing Rustic again despite the many other publics I could enjoy.

[John_Cullum]

The one thing South Carolina has that California doesn't is South Carolinians. These are probably the most refined Southerners out there (sorry Virginia, but in case you haven't heard, you're generally considered to be Yankees by the rest of us). If you can't have a great time in South Carolina, you are lacking something.

Now there's no slight intended to my cherished Golden State friends, but there are alot more unfriendly people in Cal than you'll find in SC. There really isn't a big city in SC, the whole state is pretty gentile. Throw in the hunting and fishing, SC is hard to beat.

[Brad Tufts]

I do think Myrtle offers great options for all budgets.  

The only thing that falls slightly short is the GCA-architecture-approved trip to that area.  I think there may only be enough courses to see for one or two 6-rounders for the architecture buff.  The rest is hit or miss, with quite a bit missing.

I did read to the end in hopes of a mention for the "Myrtle Beach Ballet."  I have a text message saved on my phone from a friend who was recently down in MB that says, "Should I go to the Golden Palace Club or Bottom's Up?  Survey says both!"

[Tom Huckaby]

I don't understand the need to play many different courses on the same trip.  I'm really looking forward to playing Rustic again despite the many other publics I could enjoy.

The general on this is a discussion we've had in here before; and it seems to just be personal preference.  When travelling some like to play one great course a lot, some like to sample many different courses.  I tend to go for the latter... I figure I won't get back to an area, so I want to see what I can see.  But I understand sticking with the tried and true and trying to learn it or fully enjoy it.

But my take is based on their being lots of decent choices... I think SoCal is unique in that you have the one great one (Rustic) and a paucity of others... seriously, what other publics would you really want to go to, at least within decent range of LMU?

JC:  from my small experience, I can say I think you're right on re South Carolinians and Californians.  But re the latter, you have to remember that real Californians are kind of a minority here... most people you meet will be "from" somewhere else... or so it seems.

TH

[A.G._Crockett]

A four page thread at least tangentially about Myrtle Beach golf, and Matt Ward hasn't posted to bash it, nor I have posted to praise it.

Priceless...

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()