[Mike Hendren]

fka Neither Biarritz nor Double-Plateau, I have selfishly retitled this thread to bump it to the top.  I think this green is fantastic and "as good as it gets."  I really want your opinions.  Without cheating, name the archie:

ORIGINAL POST:

This green complex is on a par five measuring 580 yards from the middle tees.  An environmentally sensitive stream crosses the fairway at about 260 (in other words, it could not be relocated) so most players go with a 3-wood off the tee.  As a result, the hole effectively plays 600 yards +.

From left rought 125 yards out:


40 yards from front edge, middle of fairway:


Victimized by the false front!(ballmark is halfway between ball at rest and flag:


The rest of the story from front right edge:


Looking back from mid-green:


Looking back from back-edge:


From the next tee left of the green:


Mike

[Bill_McBride]

Mike, looks like a textbook double plateau.  Why not?

[Mike Hendren]

Bill,

I am reluctant to call it a Biarritz since the valley is so broad and pinnable.  I am also reluctant to call it a double-plateau, though that is a highly accurate discription, because the head-on orientation.  I have been under the assumption that the Double-Plateau (a defined term) is traditional oriented at an angle to the line of play with the valley visible at approach.
Also, the false front is a unique feature for such a complex as well.

Generally,

Do ya'll like this?
Guess the architect (w/o cheating or assuming)

Mike

[BCrosby]

I like it a lot.

Reminds me of a similar quasi-crypto-faux Biarritz by Mike Young in Costa Rica (Hacienda Pinella) on a long par 5 (18th).

These are the the kinds of holes best suited for a Biarritz green.

Putting them at the end of a 230 yard par 3 has never made sense to me.

Bob

[FREEMAHC]

Putting them at the end of a 230 yard par 3 has never made sense to me.

Bob

Would you prefer that they were in the middle of a 230 yard par 3?

[Bill_McBride]

A very solid par 5 at Southern Dunes just southeast of Orlando, #16, has a similar green, with a smallish front plateau and deep swale and larger rear plateau.  It too lines up like a Biarritz.  It is very similar to Mike's illustrated green, with a false front.  I don't think the swale is long enough front to back to pin that area.  

[Mike Hendren]

A re-titled bump.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'll guess Bobby Weed.

Do I get something if I win?  (typical greedy rater behavior)  

[A_Clay_Man]

I can see why no one has tried to guess the archie. I'ts way too hard. Not enough info. Could be anybody from Ted Robinson to Tom Fazio, so I'll guess art hills.

[Mike Hendren]

Adam,

Is "could be anybody" a compliment?  Is Art Hills a criticism?
Do you LIKE IT?

Mike

[Scott_Burroughs]

I like it (although the deadflatness of the rest of the hole is a little bland).  I was going to guess you're home course (and architect of), but the scorecard online doesn't list any par 5's longer than 551, unless one was lenghtened.

The aerial of Belle Meade doesn't have any hole like this and Memphis CC has no long par 5's either.

I'll hazard a wild guess of Nicklaus on one of the Bear Trace courses.

[Todd_Eckenrode]

I know, but only because I was a member there.  This is a hard one, if not.  Hints..he's a proponent of strategy in green design, as the LPGA would know, yet had a PGA player consult on this one.

[Mike Hendren]

Scott,

Bear Trace is a good guess.  Nicklaus' team did an outstanding job on the Bear Trace and their rates offer some of the best bang for buck in the country.  The courses are not heavily marketed, relatively remote and receive modest play but are head and shoulders better than the RTJ Trail in Alabama.  No surprise that Bear Trace courses are one and two in the state public ranks according to Golfweek.

Mike

Todd,

Didn't expect you to weigh in.  While the course has strengths and weaknesses, I do like the green noted as well as the 17th in particular with its centerline bunker and cool green (I could do w/o the eyecandy fairway bunkers long and left but they were probably in play for you based upon what I hear.  I'd love to get your thoughts on the course sometime.  

Mike

[RJ_Daley]

Yes, I'm also calling it a Double Plateau rather than Biarritz. I like the low profile with interesting enough chipping hollows around the green.  But, the green isn't overly pushed up.  A cost saving approach that still got a great amount of effective contour for a green site and surrounds.  

I can't tell if thereis a bunker off the left side LOP tied into the middle swale.  It would be a nice touch, but not totally necessary to still just have a grass depression there.

But, I'd have to say one would need to be mighty astute to be able to tell from these limitted views which archie this is.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

OK, I figured it out.  Definitely a course Lou Gehrig would love.

Same drinkin' and flyin' design 'team' that did a course in my area.

Hmmm.  My Nicklaus guess wasn't too far off.


"She's a brick....house."

I've been in the stadium related to this course.

(AOTD clue rusty).

[CJ72]

Alright - Who is it?

[Mike Hendren]

I did not really expect anyone to guess the archie but thought it was a more effective tag line than the original title.
This is the fourth hole at Legends Club of Tennessee Ironhorse course designed by Bob Cupp w/ Tom Kite.  

This hole give me fits and I absolutely love the green complex.  A front pin requires a delicate shot as the front plateau is extremely shallow.  With my poor wedge game, I typically try to bump an 8-iron into the bank.  The rare shot that remains on the front plateau is the most satisfying on the course.  

While there is nothing about the green that would reveal the architect, I think it is a great example of how the oft criticized modern guys do indeed "get it," and confirms my opinion that they simply don't "practice it" for a number of reasons.  

As an aside, the course was rated 3rd best among the state's public courses in the current Golfweek despite the fact that it is private!  It's sister course by Cupp/Kite is available for public play and was rated 4th.  

Interesting note:  Kite played a nine holes exhibition when the course opened ten years ago and lost to Joe Kennedy, the superintendent who is still there.  

Todd, any additional comments?

Mike

[Scott_Burroughs]

Mike,

My clue rundown above goes like this:

Definitely a course Lou Gehrig would love. = "the Iron Horse"

Same drinkin' and flyin' design 'team' that did a course in my
area.  = Drinkin' (Cupp), Flyin' (Kite) did Eagle Ridge near Raleigh, NC.

Hmmm.  My Nicklaus guess wasn't too far off. = "Cupp" came
out of the Nicklaus design firm (and Nicklaus is a "legend").


"She's a brick....house." = by the Commodores and Legends
Club or Tennessee is officially named "Vanderbilt Legends Club
or Tennessee" (what a mouthful), as in Vanderbilt U.
Commodores.  

I've been in the stadium related to this course = "Vanderbilt"
Stadium, host of the 1998 Music City Bowl.

Like I said, I'm rusty.  

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()