[Jim_Michaels]

If Shinnecock, National, Maidstone, Friar's Head, Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot and Oak Hill are the 7 best courses in NY, what is number 8?

[Scott_Burroughs]

That's a big "if" to some here.  I think there's a few here who might put Garden City and/or Fenway in that top 7, or very close to it.

The Creek and Piping Rock might be close, too.

[James Edwards]

Beth Page?

[Brian_Gracely]

No mention of Bethpage Black?

[Scott_Burroughs]

The Black, of course!  Duh.  

[Brian_Gracely]

And what about Trump National? Some people say it's the best course in NY State.

[DTaylor18]

Also Winged Foot East

[Scott_Burroughs]

Fisher's Island

Another one sometimes forgotten in the NY listings deserving mention here.

[James Edwards]

How is Atlantic GC received amongst the GCA fraternity?  Where would that rank, if ranked?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Bill,

You probably knew this was coming, but what was #1 modern in NY for you?  Olde Kinderhook?  Easthampton?

Or Trump or Hudson Nationals?  

Other modern candidates I can think of:  Montauk Downs, Tallgrass, Stonebridge.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I meant what used to be your #1.  The new kid on the block was not terribly difficult to figure out.

[Steve Lapper]

8. Bethpage Black
9. Fishers Island
10. Friar's Head
11. Garden City
12. Fenway
13. Winged Foot East
14. Piping Rock
15-20 Olde Kinderhook (never played it so I can't really be definitive), Atlantic, Westchester CC, Sleepy Hollow, The Creek.


Nowhere Near even the top 25: Trump National

Courses like Wykagyl, Century, Bethpage Red, Hudson National, Apawamis, et. al. all outshine the Trump hype!

[James Edwards]

Bill,

I agree, I'll look forward to it once again aswell.  
Favourite holes?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I would have trouble saying anything with Trumps name on it with a straight face.

[Matt_Ward]

Winged Foot West is a lock for a top five spot and I believe I can make a strong case that Bethpage Black would be also a member of the fabulous five for the Empire State.

I also agree that Fenway deserves a much better reception than many might believe.

FYI -- Olde Kinderhook also deserves a high placement -- likely just outside the top ten IMHO. Unfortunately, too few have played it thus far.

Most overrated -- Oak Hill East -- it's long overdue for the trees to be cut. The course is simply a predictable test -- albeit a tough one when set-up accordingly. I mean Digest has the course in the top ten in the USA and that is a big time stretch IMHO.

[Donnie Beck]

My top 10

#1 Shinnecock
#2 NGLA
#3 Garden City
#4 Fishers Island
#5 Friar's Head
#6 Maidstone
#7 Winged Foot West
#8 BethPage Black
#9 The Creek
#10 Atlantic

[Jim_Michaels]

Shouldn't have left out BPB, so I guess the question was 9th? And, I WAS KIDDING about the thread.  I was joking, because I thought the "3rd best" thread is a bit silly.

[Jeff Fortson]

9th best.....

The Creek  (which is actually higher in my book)


Jeff F.

[Gene Greco]

(Meant to be read in classic NY dialect):

        Is this place LOADED, or what!

           And MORE to come!

Where in the top ten will we place Tom Doak's Bayberry Land which recently (finally) received approval?
Great land (next to NGLA), great archie and great owner will all lead to an inspirational design.


And Matt does have it correct regarding the unexplainable inflated ranking of Oak Hill. Could anyone explain to me why this is, not from a political point of view, but from an architectural point of view?

[SPDB]

Gene - If it hasn't been already, I think your post just jinxed any certainty that the Bayberry approval is "final."

[Matt_Ward]

Jim Michaels:

If it's so silly / re: Jersey's 3rd best course -- why post a comparable one for New York courses? Hello -- anybody home?

P.S. For those who diss Winged Foot / West I wonder how much of that is related to the lack of scoring opportunities the course presents when playing -- with the exception for the more highly skilled player. Might it just be that the folks who rate the other courses higher have a better time in scoring on them? Forgive me  --  how silly to believe there would be any self interest involved.

[SPDB]

Matt -
Maybe that's why Jeff Fortson picked the Creek, at 6400 maxed out from the tips, I'm sure he feasts on the course.
It's possible, though, that he might think, irrespective of the course's challenges, that it's architecture might actually make the course the 9th best in the state.

[Gene Greco]

Sean:

    The Bayberry decision is final.

Remember, I live here and am privy more information than most.

The only question remaining was whether or not the old manor house was to be preserved.

I believe an article in last weeks Southampton Press also stated that the preservationists had lost their battle to preserve this building due to the high cost (*>18 million) to restore it. The decision was based on the fact that it wasn't the new owners fault or responsibility to correct 80 years of neglect brought upon this old structure.

What no one seemed to understand among these preservationists is a knowledge of basic golf architecture. If the old structure was to be preserved more of this beautiful piece of land would be disrupted from its natural state in order to reroute the course.

The owner of this land is making an offer to the Town of Southampton which it can't refuse - gifting outright acre upon acre of waterfront property to be preserved and used for public beach access, marine research and nature trails.

The course will be built and will be hailed by those on this site as another Friar's Head and spoken in the same breath as its immediate neighbors, National Golf Links of America and Shinnecock.  

[Matt_Ward]

Gene:

Do you know what the total acreage for the site will be?

FYI -- This week's GolfWorld (Daly on the cover) featured a short article ont he approval process and stated that comstruction isn't expected to start until mid-to-late 2005 at the earliest. Does that jive with what you know?

SPDB:

I'm glad to hear that architecture is being pushed as a main point. Just explain to me why Winged Foot / West is thought of in just respectful terms -- very few rave about it -- although I believe it is one of the most thorough courses we have in the States.

Any listing of top golf in The Empire State that doesn't have WF / West among the top five speaks volumes on a person's listing and tastes (lack thereof) IMHO.

[SPDB]

Gene -
I was trying to be funny.   . As for me, though, I won't consider it final until people are playing golf there. I believe it still has to go through site plan approval. Plenty of time for someone to discover the very rare, and heretofore never seen Great Peconic Macaw.

Matt  - the golf course acreage is 100 acres. I think it could have been more but the owner decided to build cottages and an 8,000 sq. ft. owner's house.

As for WFW, I don't know what you're talking about. Anybody who doesn't rave about it, doesn't know their architecture. Wasn't it you and I that had an argument about the best 36 hole facility? I forgot who was advocating WF and who was arguing for Bandon - refresh my memory.  

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