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Ted_Sturges

Raynor 1 shot holes
« on: July 05, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
I'm trying to put together a list of Raynor's best "short" and "eden" holes.  High on my list of "short" holes are the short hole at Shore Acres (the 11th I believe), and the short hole at Fox Chapel.  On my list of his best "eden" holes are the eden at Camargo and of course, the eden at Fishers Island.  Please help me increase/improve my list.
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Ran Morrissett

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Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Several members at Fishers say the Eden is their favourite hole there. This was not readily apparent to me on my first round there but over time, I think they may indeed have a point. If you find a better Eden hole anywhere, whether Raynor did it or not (other than the original), let me know.
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Noel Freeman

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 04:03:30 PM »
The backboard of the Redan at Shoreacres is amazing.. What I found interesting is the maintenance meld on it is a bit fuzzy in order to allow a ball to stay on the green and cozy up to pin placements..
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 04:06:34 PM »
The coolest short I have seen is at Blind Brook.

The hole is like a volcano with the green on top of the severe hill. The green is insane with a horseshoe that is wilder then Forsgate.  It is intense.

Noel - agreed on the redan at Shoreacres.
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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 04:17:00 PM »
There's only one Eden hole.  It's key architectural features include:

1. Exposure to wind.
2. Severly sloping green.
3. Death beyond.
4. The depth and placement of the Hill and Strath bunkers.

Are there ANY replica's that incorporate all four features?

I'm guessing that most feature 1. and 4.

Lookout Mountain is an excellent example of 2. and 3.  

Mike
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

SteveC

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 05:01:00 PM »
You asked for "Short" and "Eden," but do not forget the Redan.

#6 at Yeamans Hall, 180 yards - a fabulous hole. From GCA.com's Courses by Architect: "A classically manufactured Redan hole. One could sit on the tee all day trying to get the draw just right."
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ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 05:36:47 PM »
Ted,

I have to agree with Dr. Childs on Blind Brook, just wild. The two most underrated Edens that I have played are at Wanumetonomy and Hotchkiss, which is a downhill shot.

Anthony
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Bill_McBride

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Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 06:43:58 PM »
The problem I've seen with Edens around the U.S. is that none seem to have the Hill and Strath bunkers quite close enough together.  There always seems to be enough room to play safely between them, where at TOC the whole situation is pretty terrifying.

Is that a valid criticism, or am I just still overawed by the Eden at TOC?
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 09:03:21 PM »
Ted Sturges,

Sorry to be 7 years late with a response, but Westhampton has a great short hole, plenty of contouring in the green, it's elevated above great bunkering, and it's close to the water which produces plenty of wind.
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Buck Wolter

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Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 09:12:21 PM »
Mike-
Here's the write up on St Louis' Eden from Ran's profile:

3rd hole, 205 yards; An unusually long Eden hole, the 3rd was selected as one of the greatest holes in George Peper's  The 500 World's Greatest Golf Holes. Many of the key features are present: deep bunkers cut into a ridge that the green sits on, a false front, a sharp back to front tilt, and death if you go over the green. The only attribute missing is that the green isn't a skyline one, a quality that is harder to achieve in the middle of the country than it is along a coastline.

There are a couple photos in the write-up.


Buck


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Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

LBaker

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 09:45:41 PM »
Blind Brooks 15th is the most difficult green when the pin is up on the top of the horse shoe.  

Eden, how about The Links, Roslyn NY#16

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LBaker

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 09:48:45 PM »
Short Raynor, #5 Blind Brook.  254 par 4
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Mike Hendren

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Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2006, 11:36:29 AM »
Bill,

Cool aerial.  I navigated slightly to the northwest and found a - no, wait it couldn't be - yes, it is - a RUNWAY TEE!

Affirmation.

Mike
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 11:38:27 AM by Bogey_Hendren »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2006, 07:29:49 PM »
Quote from: Bogey_Hendren on October 17, 2006, 11:36:29 AM
Bill,

Cool aerial.  I navigated slightly to the northwest and found a - no, wait it couldn't be - yes, it is - a RUNWAY TEE!

Affirmation.

Mike


Mike,

Almost all of the tees at GCGC are runway tees.
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2006, 08:30:06 PM »
I'm partial to the 7th hole as a down hill "short" at Blue Mound.  It is short at about 140-60, quite downhill dropping about 30ft, guarded front by bunkering, has a soap dish depression green.. or donut or potty seat (depending on your definition), and is a greensite platform with slopes off sides and back.  It is followed by the 8th, a world class par 4 ending in a punchbowl and preceded by a short "strategy" par 4.

Poor Ted, waiting 7 years for answers... ;) ;D ::)
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2006, 10:46:16 PM »
Quote from: redanman on October 17, 2006, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on October 17, 2006, 07:29:49 PM


Mike,

Almost all of the tees at GCGC are runway tees.

No Patrick, we found the two Best


I'll repeat what I said since it's factual and accurate.
 "Almost all of the tees at GCGC are runway tees."[/color]
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Jonathan Cummings

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Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2006, 06:41:34 AM »
Anybody know if you can join the Raynor Society without being a member of a Raynor course?  Tony?  George?

I'm doing an article about Elkridge in Baltimore (be out in Jan) and was told by a member that the Society only accepts "internal" members.

Just curious if this is true - the website suggests you can join if you have $100 and are a "fan" of Raynor designs.

JC
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Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2006, 12:19:24 PM »
The short at Bluemound. Recently restored by Renaissance. That back left pin takes some courage to go after.

Unfortunately this tee blocks the view of the front bunkers from the regular tee.

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ForkaB

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2006, 12:24:49 PM »
I like the concept of a "one shot" hole!  Never seen one outside of the 18th at most miniature golf courses, however........
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MBL

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2006, 05:33:48 PM »
Is Blue Mound a Raynor?  The pic sure looks an awful lot like that of the Short at St. Louis (albeit the Missouri version plays over a hollow to more of a platform green - resulting in much more severe slopes - to the thumbprint nee "potty-seat" that can be BRUTALLY pinned).

As for Raynor's 1 shotters, the five at SLCC are awfully special(Rich, a ball can make its way thru the replica Strath and Hill bunkers on the SLCC Eden).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 05:34:28 PM by Mark Lewis »
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George_Bahto

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Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2006, 12:03:12 AM »
Jonathan: No, you do not have to be a member of a SR golf course to join the Soc.
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Gib_Papazian

Re:Raynor 1 shot holes
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2006, 12:15:32 AM »
There is something stark and wickedly intimidating about Piping Rock's Short hole.

No, it does not fit seemlessly into the surrounds, but most of them don't.

Raynor didn't care - and neither do I.

It just sits there, an abrupt knob, rising out of the ground sticking its tongue out at you.

The list of great Raynor par-3's is never ending and the argument is inevitably circular . . . . . but that one sticks with me.

Under-rated: Reverse-Redan at Creek Club.

PS: Uncle George, reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.    
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