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Mike Benham

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Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« on: February 04, 2004, 12:09:44 PM »
From today's SF Chronicle ...

Cypress might get back in rotation, along with some other courses

Brian Murphy, Chronicle Staff Writer


Pebble Beach -- Tiger Woods stood outside the scorer's trailer on the Plantation Course at Kapalua and said there was an easy way to get him back to play the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am on a regular basis.

"I'll come back for sure when Cypress Point comes back to the rotation," he said, smiling.

Wait.

What?

Cypress Point? Back in the rotation?

Turns out the idea is being kicked around the Monterey Peninsula Foundation, the organization that runs the AT&T. It's far from certain, and it's at least three years away from reality, but there is a plan being floated that would expand the number of golf courses in the rotation to include Cypress Point, a planned Tom Fazio course near Pebble Beach and maybe even Monterey Peninsula Country Club, which is rebuilding one of its two courses.

The idea: Keep Pebble as the anchor in the rotation, and move the other courses in and out -- including Cypress Point, widely regarded as one of the top golf courses in the world.

Several players responded with delight at the possibility and said the addition would no doubt bring more of the world's top players back to play the tournament.

"I've heard the rumors," five-time AT&T champ Mark O'Meara said.

Charles Howell III heard them, too.

"I've heard that, yes," Howell said. "It sure wouldn't hurt a lot of players' thinking. Pebble's arguably the best golf course, or one of the prettiest golf courses in the world. And you've got Cypress right there with it."

Howell chuckled.

"I guess the only other course in the rotation," he said, "would be Augusta National."

When Bing Crosby brought the tournament to the Monterey Peninsula in 1947, Cypress Point was one of the original courses played, along with Monterey Peninsula CC and Pebble Beach. But in 1991, the Tour moved out of Cypress Point and over to Poppy Hills, the result of fallout from the Shoal Creek controversy.

In 1990, Alabama's Shoal Creek hosted the PGA Championship but came under fire for its failure to have an African American member. The next year, then- Tour commissioner Deane Beman, in an attempt to fend off a public relations nightmare, asked Cypress Point, which did not have an African American member, to admit one immediately or risk losing its spot on the AT&T rotation.

Cypress Point responded by saying it had nothing in its by-laws that excluded any race, but said its waiting list for members was so lengthy that it would be unfair to have a black member leapfrog that list.

The Tour's response: Hello, Poppy Hills.

It is believed that Cypress Point still does not have a member who is black, but those who are kicking around the idea think the Tour is comfortable with the possibility of returning to Cypress Point one day.

Tour commissioner Tim Finchem was noncommittal when asked about the possibility.

"I'll just say this: We're always looking to play better golf courses," Finchem said. "Cypress Point is one of the best golf courses in the world.

"But I'm not aware, as we speak, of the existence of or status of any conversations or plans in that area. I assume if the foundation has plans, or is having conversations, they'll make me aware of them at the appropriate time. "

If Cypress Point still does not have an African American member, would that be a deal-killer for the Tour?

"There's nothing about our position on those issues that's changed, specifically," Finchem said. "But our position on that issue related to a specific set of circumstances at a specific point in time. Our policy is a fairly general policy, so it would depend on circumstances.

"If it's presented to us, we'll take a look at it. We'd have to evaluate it and know all the facts."

Tournament director Ollie Nutt would say only that any potential move is at least three years away, contingent first on the Fazio-designed course getting approved and built.

"It's down the road," Nutt said. "But we'll keep our options open."
[/i]

 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 12:15:29 PM by Mike Benham »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

klangone

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2004, 12:13:09 PM »
It will never happen........CP won't let the PGA Tour have carte blanche over its membership policies.

I still think Spyglass is the best course in the rota........

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2004, 12:16:03 PM »
It will never happen........CP won't let the PGA Tour have carte blanche over its membership policies.

I still think Spyglass is the best course in the rota........

I pasted in the remainder of the article that addresses the previous issue with Cypress ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2004, 12:20:12 PM »
(Only just) slightly off-topic:

Having pledged my undying, everlasting lust for CPC, can any of you Amercan fellows remember if there are any DVDs or similar available of previous AT&T's (etc) in which it may have featured? (it would gain pride of place in the FBD Golf Porn collection.... 8))
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Tom_Ross

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2004, 12:27:49 PM »
Isn't there a frequent poster on GCA.com that plays at MPCC?  I thought I saw his name as something like Bob Hunter?  It would be interesting to get an insider's take on the rumors.  It would also be interesting to see a Mike Strantz design get some national exposure.  

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2004, 12:30:52 PM »

Tom,

       That would be Bob Huntley and hopefully he will chime in when he see's this.


Patrick_Mucci

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2004, 12:36:50 PM »
KLangone,
It will never happen........CP won't let the PGA Tour have carte blanche over its membership policies.

I still think Spyglass is the best course in the rota........

Better then Pebble Beach and Cypress Point ?????

On what basis ?


Bob_Huntley

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Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2004, 01:44:48 PM »
I cannot speak for the Directors of Cypress Point nor MPCC but my own views are thus.

Cypress, for years, allowed their course to be used for the tourney and their only monetary charge was for helping with the clean-up after the hordes had left. When receiving a ukase about membership policies from Deane Beman, I am sure that they felt they did not need the hassle or publicity. Hence the move to Poppy Hills.

In my opinion, the move from MPCC to Spyglass Hill in the mid-sixties, really knocked knocked the Clambake spirit from the event. The parties at the Club and auctioning off of teams was halted and it all became big business.

Could the courses come back to the rotation? In my opinion it would be highly unlikely and not welcomed by the membership at large. However, in this day and age it seems as though largesse with the checkbook cures all ills and who knows, if the membership at either place felt that they needed relief from ever increasing dues and deficits, the decision could be made in a monment.

Tom_Ross

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2004, 01:50:23 PM »
Mr.Huntley,

Having never been to the event, what sort of crowd-moving logistics are involved in the AT&T?  I've been to Pebble Beach and driven past CPC, and they obviously lack for parking space.  Where are the parking lots for the events?  Considering the event is split onto three courses, about how many people would invade MPCC on a given day?  

THuckaby2

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2004, 01:57:33 PM »
Tom:

In case Mr Huntley doesn't get to this, and yes he is the expert on all this by a large margin... well... just do understand that for a good many years now, all general public parking has taken place considerably off-site, outside the 17 Mile Drive... then fans are bussed in, as well as bussed from course to course.

In light of this, I'd say that parking is a non-issue when it comes to change of courses.  No effect at all.  Neither CPC nor MPCC are any further away from the each other as any of the others.

TH


Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2004, 01:57:41 PM »
Mr.Huntley,

Having never been to the event, what sort of crowd-moving logistics are involved in the AT&T?  I've been to Pebble Beach and driven past CPC, and they obviously lack for parking space.  Where are the parking lots for the events?  Considering the event is split onto three courses, about how many people would invade MPCC on a given day?  

Parking for the masses is not an issue as general spectator parking and free shuttle service is available Thursday-Sunday at Cal State Monterey Bay/Fort Ord.

I clarify that "not an issue" does not mean it is not a "pain in the ass" ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2004, 01:58:42 PM »
Broncos do think alike, and at the same time.  Man I damn near also added what a pain in the ass it is, but refrained...  ;D

A_Clay_Man

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2004, 02:04:29 PM »
Tom- I can respond on some of the logistics involved. Some might call it a nimble ballet dance considering the obvious restrictions and some probably think it's a cluster y know what. Inside the gates of 17 mi dr. the shuttles for the players and caddies is usually first rate. The public is primarily forced to park at Ft. Ord and big buses constantly shuttle everybody. (Not between course ?) Some of the locals have secret spots to park, but I would not recommend that for the uninitiated.

I know if I was a kid living within a mile of the courses, I would be hawking my driveway for a sawbuck a car.

The sad part of the Ft. Ord logistics is the lack of spill-over spending to the towns of Pacific Grove and Monterey. A real bone
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 02:07:45 PM by A_Clay_Man »

THuckaby2

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2004, 02:08:40 PM »
Something else just struck me here...

"I'll come back for sure when Cypress Point comes back to the rotation," he said, smiling."

Does Tiger saying that make this more likely actually to occur?

I just ask because I wonder how much power he has... can he effect a site change as monumental as this?

Or will it happen, or not happen, regardless of what Tiger wants?

TH

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2004, 02:11:04 PM »
Whoa on most of this.   First you have to see that the source for all of this is Brian Murphy, the writer for the San Francisco Chronicle.  This guy starts rumors (AND THIS IS ALL JUST A RUMOR) so he can print something.  To put it in perspective, this is the same writer that has hounded the USGA to play the US Open at Harding Park and then writes that the USGA is considering it bringing up crazy expectations.  

There probably is some ration that once the Pebble Beach Company builds the Forest Course that they would play their tournament on that course.  
I assume they now pay Poppy Hills some type of fee which could then be dropped from the rotation.

As for Cypress Point, my member freinds say no way, it has never been discussed at the club and Cypress has not admitted a black member to satisfy the criteria which is why it was pulled.

The real story for this AT&T is Paul Azinger and his comments which they want to sweep under the rug.

Rick Shefchik

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Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2004, 02:13:25 PM »
Which comments are those?
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2004, 02:24:24 PM »
Second-hand stuff, Rick:

Azinger said, more or less, that the organizers don't give a rat's behind about the players anymore -- even about the ex-champions, of which he is one.

He withdrew from the tournament this week, reportedly because they wouldn't allow him to play with his frequent partner there, who runs a company in, I think, Georgia -- a company that, in Azinger's view, just isn't big enough to impress the corporate honchos who run the AT&T and who get the amateur slots.

See www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/03/SPGS74NJE11.DTL

(Copy/paste that URL.)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 02:40:36 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Kevin_Reilly

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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Bob_Huntley

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Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2004, 04:36:01 PM »
I have not been able to find the Azinger article but I am sure it doesn't tell it all. I would even hazard a guess that that even though a former champion, he might well have been DISINVITED.

It is my understanding that last year Mr. Azinger brought his entourage along to function, in which each contestant was given a ticket for himself and ONE other guest. It was pointed out to him that the remainder of his party could not take part. His language and behavior to a senior executive of the Pebble Beach Corporation was deemed unacceptable.  

ChasLawler

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2004, 04:41:32 PM »
I can't really figure it out for sure, but I think I just lost a lot of respect for Paul Azinger. He needs to sit back and remember who signs his paycheck.


klangone

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2004, 05:00:16 PM »
I didn't say SHill was better than Cypress.......that would be madness.  My opinion is that SHill is better than Pebble.......I have played both more than enough to know that Pebble is easier for the average player (i.e. me).  SHill is brutally tough.......

Rick Shefchik

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Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2004, 05:08:22 PM »
This turn of events suggests to me that we'll be seeing many more clashes between players and sponsors in the coming years. A not-so-subtle shift has taken place on the PGA Tour: it has gone from a series of big-money tournaments to a veritable tsunami of cash. Tiger may be chiefly responsible, and the players may think they understand that, but they really don't.

As purses, perks and pampering has skyrocketed, the players seem to have assumed this is all the natural order of things, and the sponsors exist merely to cater to their whims.

Azinger found out that the sponsors expect a lot in return for the gushers of cash they've pumped into the tour. I think we're going to see some uneasy relationships as the pros discover there are strings attached to the lucre.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tom_Ross

Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2004, 05:11:15 PM »
Peter Jacobsen seems to be one of the few on tour that "get it"....

"''It frustrates me when players grouse about the conditions of the golf course without checking the circumstances,'' said Peter Jacobsen, making his 25th start at the AT&T. ''It has a tendency to rain here. And when greens get wet, I don't care if you're playing Isleworth, Augusta or Pebble Beach. It's going to be bumpy.''

What bothers Jacobsen more than griping about greens and weather is when players ignore the importance of the Pro-Am. Some of the CEOs playing this week are the reason $5 million purses are the norm, not the exception, and why there were 72 guys who earned more than $1 million last year.

''It's not like the amateurs are truck drivers, or people walking in off the streets,'' Jacobsen said. ''If players would actually spend some time and look at these bios, rather than worry about their own stats, they'd realize these people are important."

''I would gladly give up one week a year to play with corporate CEOs that impact my tour to play 30 weeks worrying only about myself.''

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2004, 05:18:30 PM »
I would even hazard a guess that that even though a former champion, he might well have been DISINVITED.

I think you are correct.  I have a freind who is one of the partners at the Pebble Beach Corp and you can assume he is very wealthy and a former CEO of a large company.  Most of the other partners are as well.  These are not the type of guys that you can push around and they have no interest in putting up with some small time CEO from Georgia that Azinger wants to play with.  Furthermore, they really are sick of the Hollywood celebs who want to play but want everything for free, rooms-food and golf, aka Kevin Costner.  They put up and have some respect for Bill Murray because he pays his way including the $10k entry fee.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cypress, MPCC and Fazio in the ATT Rotation?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2004, 05:27:43 PM »
These are not the type of guys that you can push around and they have no interest in putting up with some small time CEO from Georgia that Azinger wants to play with.

I wonder what de Tocqueville would think of this.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

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