[johnk]

The president of Poppy Holdings, Paul Porter, writes a column in the NCGA magazine.  Lately, he's been calling Poppy Ridge a "Rees Jones Scottish Heathland Course"  He bandies about the term "Scottish Heathland" and implies that it means fast and firm and possibly brown.

I've brought this up before and the consensus here was that there really is no such thing as the "Scottish Heathland".  I was willing to give the Rees Jones' people the benefit of the doubt, but as I read this month's "Poppy Potpourri" I get the sense that Rees has sold Paul Porter on this concept.

Is there a Scottish Heathland or is Rees or Paul Porter conjuring up this notion?  It kind of bugs me that someone could be geographically fudging this and misleading a very large avid golf population..

johnk

PS.  Poppy Ridge currently ain't playing fast and firm - Scottish Heathland or no...

[Brian Phillips]

Johnk,

There is no Scottish Heathland that I know of..

Brian

[Marty Bonnar]

Johnk/Brian,
I'd consider Ladybank as a 'Heathland-esque' landscape. Plenty of the Ericaceae anyway!!!!

By way of evidence....

http://www.ladybankgolf.co.uk/gallery.html

FBD.

PS Brian - YOU'VE PLAYED IT!!!!!

[Brian Phillips]

Martin,

I agree that there is heather at Ladybank but I would not class it as heathland.

Especially when compared to the heathland of southern England.

Brian

[ForkaB]

I think ther are many courses in Scotland that deserve to be called "heathland," even if their heaths are not mirror imagres of the heaths around London.  As well as Ladybank, off the top of my head I can think of Alyth, Forfar, Kirriemuir, Glenbervie, Lanark, Kingussie, holes 6-10 at Golspie and Blairgowrie.  To argue otherwise is picking nits.

[Dan Kelly]

As well as Ladybank, off the top of my head I can think of Alyth, Forfar, Kirriemuir, Glenbervie, Lanark, Kingussie, holes 6-10 at Golspie and Blairgowrie.  To argue otherwise is picking nits.

Rich --

Does Poppy Ridge fit in with that group?

[Tom_Doak]

There is lots of heathland in Scotland, and there are several golf courses in it, as Rich documented.

There is almost no heathland in the U.S.A., and there is no golf course which feels much at all like a U.K. heathland course.  I haven't seen Poppy Ridge, but no way is it a heathland course.  It's just a marketing term.

Another pretender (of sorts) is my own Heathland course at The Legends, which I didn't name.  Originally the three courses there were going to be Linksland, Heathland and Parkland -- the three main types of courses in the U.K.  My course was modeled after links holes.  But when they started taking reservations to play it, the owner heard his phone operators say "Linksland" with a South Carolina accent and decided to change the name!

He added the name "moorland" for his second course, and it's even less of a moorland than the first course is a heathland!

[Dan Kelly]

Very funny story, Tom Doak.

[Paul_Turner]

Yes, there must be lots of courses in Scotland that would be classified as heathland.  But perhaps there's a difference-the London area courses are lowland heath (very rare) whereas the Scottish courses would be more highland and moorland?

I haven't seen a Scottish course that has masses of heather like say The Berkshire.

[Marty Bonnar]

That's actually a really good observation, Paul. I travelled to the Surrey Heathlands (The Berkshire, Worplesdon, Swinley Forest, WOKING!) last year with the rest of the MSc guys and was amazed at the amounts of Heather down there.

I think where Scottish Courses differ is that we've always cleared the carry from Tee to Fairway of Erica vulgaris and tried to maintain the grass at fairway length (or thereabouts).

Those Surrey courses have it right, though, and I will be evangelising the ENGLISH way from now on!!! (Any idea how hard that was, as a Scotsman, to say!?!?!)

FBD.

[THuckaby2]

As a fairly frequent visitor to Poppy Ridge (it's in Livermore, CA, about 50 miles southeast of San Francisco), I can attest that it is no more heathland than I am Tiger Woods.  I too cringed when I saw that ad in our association's annual magazine.  Not that I know for sure what Scottish Heathland is - though this thread helps on that account - I do know some English heathland courses and let's just say Poppy Ridge ain't like those.

But more importantly, one and all need to check out page 44 of said NCGA magazine.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Paul,

Go to Glasgow Gailes, you will find lots of heather there, I know I did. My score proved it.

[ed_getka]

And what would we see, for the benefit of those who don't get that distinguished periodical?

[THuckaby2]

Now Mr. Getka, you aren't an NCGA member?  For shame.  

Page 44 has a picture of the winners of the NCGA Committeemen's tourney.  A really handsome, jovial and yet modest guy came in 3rd place.

 

[Mike Benham]

I reacted the same way to the Scottish heathland comment in the NCGA.  It would be interesting to find out where the term came from and more importantly, why they choose to use it now.  The course has been open for 7-years now so it's not its a grand opening marketing campaign.

I assume Rees didn’t come back for a visit within the past 6-months and say “this is looking more and more like a Scottish heathland course, except for the trees, and heather, and the fact that it is 100 degrees in July …”

[THuckaby2]

Sorry for the thread-jack again  , but speaking of marketing campaigns, did you also see the recent ads for The Bridges at San Ramon?  They gave up comparing themselves to Dornoch, thank God.  Someone clued them in how the course is absolutely noting like Dornoch, but how freakin' severe there course is, so now the ads are along the lines of "are you man enough to tame the beast".... that works at least...

[Brian_Gracely]

Huck,

Is The Bridges owned by that same company where the guy in Colorado, that posted on here a few weeks ago, that he wanted to go for a Turnberry theme with his new course?  

I'll be looking forward to all the references that CBS makes at Whistling Straits this year (PGA) about it's Scottish heritage because Pete Dye and Mr.Kohler let a few sheep graze on the land.  

[THuckaby2]

BG - not sure about the ownership of The Bridges but nothing would surprise me.  Whoever told them the course was like Dornoch has obviously not been there!

Kinda hard to market an overly penal course that 99% of the players hate, that' all.  So you gotta hand it to them for punting and taking their medicine.. It's just been kinda funny how it's changed over the years.

TH

[Thomas_Brown]

I'm curious to hear the GCA conventional wisdom on Ladybank.
I've heard some good stories from players who tried to qualify for the Open(one at St. Andrews) thru Ladybank.

I played it 1990 & 1992.  (After 1992, I gave up all inland courses in GB&I.)

Isn't Ladybank far too narrow & penal w/ the heather on both sides of the fairway at several points?  To qualify for an Open didn't require a great score(unless you've played there).  I can't imagine Mickelson ever qualifying thru Ladybank.  

Tom

[Andy Levett]

Perhaps the marketing people were thinking of Gleneagles? I realise that technically it's moorland because of the elevation.

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