[Keith Durrant]

Here's a challenge: you have the chance to go before the R and A Championship Committee and make a pitch for a club which is not currently on the Open Rota...Make your case for inclusion !! Should Turnberry host in 2007? Should TOC host every five years? Should Wales and Ireland be a host or should the SouthWest England be developed as a 'market'.

The Current Rota:

Turnberry1994
Troon   1997/04
Birkdale   1998
Carnoustie1999
TOC   2000/5
Lytham   2001
Muirfield   2002
Sandwich   2003
Hoylake   2006

Evidently, considerations include not just the quality of the course itself, but also the necessary infrastructure/space to hold a 21st century championship. The R and A appears to favour only those clubs considered links in style. For neither the Open or the Amateur has been played on a true inland course (if one considers that Ganton is close to the sea). Therefore one should favour promoting any of the those clubs to have already hosted the Amateur.

The additional clubs to have held the Amateur (If this list is incomplete, please advise):

County Down
Deal
Dornoch
Formby
Ganton
Nairn
North Devon
Porthcawl
Portmarnock
Portrush
Prestwick

Aside: In researching this, I came across a press release that County Down is to hold the 2007 Walker Cup - good news there.

[Doug Siebert]

Are you asking that just on the merits of the course or do we have to consider things like how Prestwick doesn't have the room for anything like an Open sized crowd, or that Dornoch doesn't have enough lodging within two hours' drive to hold the crowds, etc.

[Keith Durrant]

Yes, obviously all these courses have at one point in time either been on the rota or have been considered. Presumably they all have negative points? What are they and could they be overcome? Hoylake managed it. Are any of these clubs actively pursuing an Open?

[Thomas_Brown]

I heard rumors at the last Lytham Open that they were done.
Course was obsolete by technology.

Portrush or County Down could easily hold an Open w/o the political implications.

Interesting that the R&A only has scheduled out 2-3 years in advance.  The USGA is taking a different tact in scheduling.

[Keith Durrant]

Is it really a political hot potato to hold it in Ulster? Is there any reason why it shouldnt be held in the Republic as well?Which of Portrush or County Down is the best candidate?

Walker Cup announcement - crowds are getting quite large for this event now?

http://www.royalcountydown.org/walkercup.htm

[David_Tepper]

I have read that the East Course at Saunton in Devon was on the short list of possible Open sites within the past 4 or 5 years. I have not seen the course, so I could not comment on its suitability. I know Royal Aberdeen is engaged in an effort (or has just completed one) to upgrade their course, although I believe they are more interested in hosting an event like the Walker Cup than the Open.

[MikeJones]

I heard rumors at the last Lytham Open that they were done.
Course was obsolete by technology.

I can't imagine that that's true for one minute. The course has never been dependent on length. Can you state your source?

[Jack_Marr]

Yes, there is a reason they cannot hold the British Open in the Republic of Ireland. It would be like holding the US open in Cuba. I don't think it would go down very well over here.

They could hold it in Northern Ireland (which is in Ulster, but does not comprise all of Ulster). Royal Portrush would be a great venue. It is though that RCD logistically hold such a big event, although it's closer to Belfast and Dublin airports.

[Mike_Cirba]

Lytham obsoleted by technology??

Why, I thought it held up quite admirably and probably made a case study for how to setup an Open course.  Didn't Duval finish at about -7?

[Dan Grossman]

Duval finished at -10, three strokes ahead of Fasth.  But, I agree, I think the course is awesome and should host another open.  The finishing 5 holes are superb and provide great drama to the tournament.  Although, with Hoylake hosting the open in 2006 and Birkdale a favorite, I don't know when it would go back to Lytham.  Formby (in my opinion) is not in the same class as either Lytham or Birkdale.  While they have a second course to help with logistics, there several holes on the front nine where it would be difficult to have spectators.  The trees are in pretty close to the holes.

[Keith Durrant]

Yes, there is a reason they cannot hold the British Open in the Republic of Ireland. It would be like holding the US open in Cuba. I don't think it would go down very well over here.

If the R&A is responsible for the governance and the championship of the game throughout the world except for the USA and Mexico, then the Open could in fact be held in any of those countries ? (including Cuba if affiliated)  

The Amateur was held at Portmarnock once.

[Jack_Marr]

The Amateur must have been held pre '49, before we left the Commonwealth.

Technically, the R&A could probably hold the British Open in the par 3 pitch and put course in Tubercurry, but it will never happen.

[Thomas_Brown]

Bonallack won the British Am. at RCD.
Unfortunately, that's not enough help.

MikeJ - Peter Alliss alluded to it during the American broadcast in the tone of Hoylake capturing a spot jeopardized Lytham's next turn.  Furthermore, I think Alliss referred to the lack of real estate to lengthen the holes for the last Open as a cause for concern.  I think Troon may suffer from a similar problem.

I read your bio on your website.
Looks like we share a passion for links courses in GB&I.
If I can make it up to Lancashire in 2004, I'll contact you for a game.   It sounds like you can give me 2 a side.  

Tom

[peter_p]

Saunton could hold one and they have a HQ hotel, decent road system, locker room problem. Maybe too far from major metro area.

Kingsbarn could hold one, but what woiuld that do to the rota of TOC every five years?

Liverpool/Southport has an over-abundance of championship links courses, which is why the choice of Hoylake bodes poorly for Lytham.

While neither Princes or Cinque Port by themselves could handle an open, maybe a composite course. Transportation and housing issues, slightly worse than Sandwich. Positive side is closeness to London.

Nothing at Portsmouth or Blackpool, which are tje only major metro areas without a rota course.

Ballyliffin, anyone.

[Jack_Marr]

Again, Ballyliffin is in the Republic of Ireland.

[Marc Haring]

 I can confirm that the east course at Saunton is a gem, designed I believe by Herbert Fowler. The infrastructure in my opinion is the problem with a fairly minor road leading to it and the only real area of population being Barnstable (not a place to visit if you can help it). It’s a pity as it is the equal of any Open venue on the rota, classic links golf, firm fescue greens, wild dunes, buckthorn everywhere.
I know that Porthcawl would like to get the Open but frankly the course is not up to Saunton’s standard apart from the first 4 holes that are quite heroic. You have to hit out into the ocean to get in A1 position on these holes. Beyond that the course goes out into higher ground that is a bit open and dull.
Not too sure about Peter Pittock’s post. Cinque Ports and Princes are a couple of miles apart so can’t see a composite course happening there. Also Blackpool is close to Birkdale, Lytham, Hoylake. There are many large metropolitan areas not on the rota. Bristol, Cardiff, Newcastle, but none have a suitable venue.

[Marty Bonnar]

Yes, there is a reason they cannot hold the British Open in the Republic of Ireland. It would be like holding the US open in Cuba. I don't think it would go down very well over here.

If the R&A is responsible for the governance and the championship of the game throughout the world except for the USA and Mexico, then the Open could in fact be held in any of those countries ? (including Cuba if affiliated)  

The Amateur was held at Portmarnock once.

rottcodd,
your post indicates either:
a. A wicked sense of humour,
b. Stupendous Political naivety,
c. A distinct lack of Historical knowledge,
d. Geographical ignorance,
e. Any combination of the above...

4 million Irishmen will be a-knocking at your door if you continue to advocate that the BRITISH Open (to give it it's Sunday name) should be played in THEIR country......

FBD. (insert Shilelagh (sp.?)-wielding, leprechaun smiley here...)

[Jack_Marr]

Yes, it's nothing against the British, with whom we have a very good relationship. It's just that we are not part of the U.K. Many people still think we are.

Also, imagine if some of the other courses mentioned were snubbed in favour of an Irish course.

I think the British Open should venture off the standard rota. Kingsbarns would surely be an ideal venue, although I don't know if they have the capacity to deal with the crowds?

[Marty Bonnar]

Jack,
I could certainly see Kingsbarns at the very least moving onto the Open qualifying rota. Presently, when the Open is played in StA, the qualies are played on Lundin Links, Leven Links, Scotscraig and Ladybank. Nothing against Leven - I really enjoy playing there, but Kingsbarns is WAY better. There might also be some who say that Ladybank shouldn't be used (too inland, not real Linksland, too many trees) but it is stuffed full of history and a really beautiful course. The R&A will certainly have to make some tough decisions in the very near future....

FBD.

[ForkaB]

I don't think that any of the courses mentioned have a hope in hell of being added to the rota--at least in the next 20-30 years.  Numbers are against any new venues.  TOC is going to be used every 5 years or so and so is Muirfield and maybe Sandwich.  That leaves just two slots every 5 years for Ayrshire (Turnberry and Troon), Carnoustie, and the West Coast English ones (Lytham, Birkdale and Hoylake).

Many of the courses mentioned would make great venues, IF the R&A were willing to compromise on spectator numbers/revenue.  They won't, for reasons relating to geese, golden eggs and avarice.

Of the courses listed, Portmarnock would fit the bill best, but since the powers that be seem to think that THE Open can only be held within that little part of the R&A's purview called "Britain," this will never happen.  However, since this is so, why don't they just start calling it officially the "British Open", as does most of the rest of the world?  Kingsbarns could fit the bill too, but not at the expense of TOC, which means never.  It will be used for qualifying, however, maybe even next year.

[ForkaB]

...Oh yeah, forgot to add....

If they want a new venue, and really want to think outside the box, how about a Composite Royal Aberdeen/Murcar layout?

Play the brilliant front nine at RA, cross over the fence to play 4, 5, 3, 2, 6, 7, 15, 17 (at 250 from a new tee behind the 15th green), and 18 at Murcar.

This course would be about 3500-3550=7050, "par" 72 and extendible.  Sure, it would start at one clubhouse and end at another, but why not?  (PS--it has been done before, at those same two links!).  As a clincher, RA has the ideal 1st hole and Murcar has a far better 19th!  

[Marc Haring]

Just to put a spanner in the works, Kingsbarn is probably a non starter because I  reckon the R&A wouldn’t want to go anywhere near a commercial operation which I believe said course is.

Also going back to where we started, Ganton not a true inland course? Well I’ve never played it but it’s a couple of miles inland on high ground and pretty tree lined these days. Heathland yes but links! No way.

[ForkaB]

Not so, MH

The R&A made a "substantial financial contribution" to Kingsbarns, and uses it as a relief course for its members.

Check out www.kingsbarns.com

[Keith Durrant]

Regarding composite courses, could Pyle & Kenfig and Porthcawl get together, to make a better whole?

[Keith Durrant]

Saunton has never held the Amateur as far as I can ascertain, so why would it be awarded the Open? Saunton has been awarded the English Amateur and Brabazon several times. Is Saunton being snubbed by the R&A?

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