[Tim Taylor]

One of my favorite things about GCA is looking at the photos contributed by other members. I am in awe at the NGLA photos just posted. I recently played my final round at my "old" club. I took my middle-of-the-road Olympus digicam with me and shot many photos. Most of them are OK at best. It was late afternoon on a cloudless, sunny day so many of the pics are washed out or overbright. It seems that most of the best pics I've seen on GCA are when it's overcast.

Any other pointers from the group? I'm not looking to take magazine quality pics, just something that I could put on a website and not be embarrased by.

TimT

[Brad Swanson]

TimT,
   I am an amateur hack photographer at best, but I find that early morning or early evening light photographs best, with clear or mostly clear skies.  It allows for the best visualization of contours.

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Dan Kelly]

Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.

Photographers don't.

[Mike Nuzzo]

in general....
low sun angles perpendicular to the direction you're shooting.
get as high as you can, not that you should have a cart, but if you do, stand on the top metal part that holds the bag.
wide angle lens is best
try different films
take lots of shots when you have a good composition
put something nice in the foreground
wait for the clouds to part, patience

[Eric_Dorsey]

I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I've found out - lighting and the sun is EVERYTHING.  Early in the morning and Late in the evening - like 1-1.5 hrs before the sun goes down gives great shadows.

Put the sun @ 4-8 o'clock around your body, as 12 o'clock would be straight away from you - a no-no.  I get great shots shooting out of shadows into the sunlight.  I like to put knarly old trees in the way or get down low and positon a trap in front of your green complex.  The better the shadows, the better the terrain will jump off the picture.  Overhead sun will wash out and wash out the terrain also, making for very bland pics.  Sometimes when your playing, this cannot be helped though.

also, set your digital cam correctly, do not use the 'auto' mode.  set it for landscape if it has it, and set the exposure for 'sunny' or 'cloudy' or whatever it is out that day.

let's see some!


here's some of mine:  http://community.webshots.com/user/mackenzie72

[Peter_Herreid]

Tim:

I'm no professional, by a long shot, but my wife is an advanced amateur, and here are a couple of her tips...

1)   Play around with the composition/angle of the shot.  Most golf shots are too focused on the green entry from the direct center fairway angle.  Try moving around to the side of the hole/green/hazard, and take a different shot than you would expect to find in GOLF magazine or Golf Digest, for example.

2)  Don't be afraid to use an off-center shot of the target, particularly if it brings an interesting design, architectural or landscape feature into view.  For example, the center of the shot could draw one's eye to a unique desert rock formation, with the desert greensite at one side, or in the corner, etc.... Shoot the "Road Hole" bunker, with the suggestion of the green behind, instead of the other way around

3)  Tree branches, etc. can be used to "frame" shots, and also add interest to the usual shot of a green.  This also gives the real-life perspective of how many of us see parts of the course!

4)  Don't forget to look back FROM the "target", for example, look back to the tee from the middle of the fairway, or down the fairway from behind the green.  Particularly on many of the older "classic" designs, many terrific land forms and architectural features are best viewed from looking back.

5)  Shoot "across" the course, particularly when wide-sweeping vistas are available.  This gives perspective of a broader view of the property, in many instances, and can place more focused shots of a given hole in a wider context.  For example, a low level shot across several holes of a tree-confined course may better give you a better feel of the density than a "tunnel vision" shot down the length of a hole

6)  Mess around with settings after the fact.  I don't do this much, but digital allows this with Photoshop, etc.

7)  Try taking the pictures early or late in the day, perhaps while not even playing.  The light is unquestionably the best then, and it may avoid B) below...

These last two, I hope, go without saying, but since they have come up in discussions on GCA, here goes...

A)  Make sure that your host/host course has given permission
for photography.  This may seem like a trivial point, but it will save countless embarassment before and after.

B)  No matter what, make sure that the picture-shooting doesn't get in the way of playing the course/playing at a proper pace.  This can be a tough one, as it involves thinking ahead and not distracting playing partners, etc., especially during "special occasion" golf.  Just try to be as inconspicuous as possible..

Hope these help!
Peter

[Dan Herrmann]

Filters make a huge difference.  Get a polarizing filter for sure.

You can also try various color filters, especially if you're shooting black & white.

Also keep in mind that you may get only one good photo out of 100 that you shoot.  

Lastly, don't look past the importance of printing your work.  In my experience, the actual shoot is 35% of the work - the other 65% is cropping, burning in (with silver-based photgraphy), and determining how you'll present your work (computer versus framed art or a book)

Most important, though - have fun and keep trying!

[ian]

I have the same Camera make. I find full sun the camera works great. Morning, evening and heavy clouds make for crappy pictures. One trick that occasionally works, is to focus on a different light condition that you can control the light settings, then turn back to the intended view (still holding that focus setting) and then take the picture. Try a few and keep the one that works.

Ian

[Tim Taylor]

I uploaded some of the pics to my ISP. So this is a test to see if I can figure out to post them on GCA.

The 14th green. This is a shortish par five (514 from the tips) that is rarely reached in two because the second shot is uphill and to this tiny green. There is nothing to guard the green but the green itself. The first time I took my buddy Matt to play at my old club he said "That green is miniature, elevated, and hump back. If it was any two of those three it would be fair." This shot is from the right side of the green. If this posts correctly, I put some more up.

[Charles_P.]

I've often admired Tom Doak's golf pictures, so I once asked him his "secrets."  I hope Tom won't mind my sharing what he wrote:

"I learned everything I know about golf photography from Brian Morgan -- and from having a good enough memory to put myself in the same positions as other photographers on the golf course.  (Brian also told me years ago that while I was hopeless technically, I had a really good eye for composition.)

My simple rules:

1.  I used to use a 24- or 28-mm wide angle lens and the standard 50 mm issue.  The majority of my shots are with the 50 mm that came with the camera, which is optically as pure as it gets (and you can always crop and enlarge if you want a "telephoto" view).  My wide-angle lenses got stolen a few years ago and I've never replaced them, but many of my views from behind greens were taken with those.

2.  I always use a polarizing filter, which deepens the colors when shooting at right angles to the sun.

3.  The best light and color are taken at right angles to the sun, or at 45 degrees INTO the sun.  The "Photog for Dummies" mantra of having the sun behind you is to keep shadows out of people's faces, but in a landscape that will give you flat light.  Early morning and late afternoon produce far better pictures, unless a course is heavily treed.

4.  I try to keep the golfer's perspective in a photo whenever possible, unless I'd be shooting directly into the sun.

5.  Take care to frame your pictures for good composition.  I usually wind up with the flag either left-center or right-center, depending on what's around it and where I am shooting from.

Hopefully that helps a little.  As you say, good light is everything, and I was lucky in my younger years to have the time to hang around great courses until I got something good -- my schedule now is far less forgiving."

In experimenting with Tom's advice, I definitely agree that wider lenses (or, if digital, zoom out as far as possible instead of zooming in) help with perspective and contours, and a polarizer is a must (though they're tougher to find for digital point-and-shoot cameras).  I've had better luck with sunlight during twilight rounds than early morning; and I'd take a cloudy day over the noon sun anytime.

[Mike Benham]

I uploaded some of the pics to my ISP. So this is a test to see if I can figure out to post them on GCA.
 

Nice job on this photo ... the branches in front do a nice job of providing depth to the photo.

Great recommendations from the other posters, here are a couple of more:

1.  Ratio of sky to turf:  Just like in portraits, make sure you have your photo framed (in the view finder) properly.  This could be different depending on the subject but if the object is to show the path to the green, you should be 2/3 fairway/green and no more than 1/3 sky (or height above green level).  However, if the sky offers something as part of the photo, the ration may be the opposite (the photos from Sand Hills a few weeks back are a perfect example, the clouds in the sky offered a wonderful contrast to the golf course).

2.  Black and White:  If you have a digital camera, shoot some pictures in Black and White.  The modern digitals do an awesome  job in b&w and this format can eliminate a lot of the color/shade/contrast imperfections that you see in color photos.

I'll email you a b&w photo I took a Yosemite a few weeks ago ... call me Ansell Adams Jr. ...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Why am I posting on this with so many expert opinons?

All of the advice is great, except Ian's, He would be better sticking to that old brownie. (just kidding!)

Actually, Ian is right though. It's very hard to get good pictures in cloudy skies and dark compositions with digital. But there is a way. I'm not sure how many of you are pointing and shooting, but I find it totally boring. It's also the only way to get my pictures to come out right in most conditions.

Unlike my Sony Mavica MVC-73, which only four years ago, I saved all I could and got what I thought at the time was the best camera for my price range. While being a complete novice at photography, It was good, just like that first set of golf clubs! But then you start blaming the clubs, and the downfall begins!

So now, I step-up and buy a camera that cost $175.00 less then my original Mavica only it's about 10 billion times better. And you know what? I still can't take pictures! What I bought was a brand new Canon A70, which was bought for one specific purpose--to post pictures on the internet, and I have to tell you I love taking pictures of golf courses, so I'm a lot like you Tim T., which means God help you man.

The difference is amazing though. The idea of being able to control aperture and shutter speed has been challenging to me as of late. It is pretty hard to figure this stuff out on your own, and it gives even more creedence to Pasian Pete and his abilities, as well as David Scaletti and others who are true artists of their craft. Trust me when I say this-It would be a great gift to take pictures like these guys. And how they must laugh at us!
(I would compare it to the guy who knows how to drive a Toyota Celica to a Formula 1 driver--It ain't even close!)

So I go from encouraging you to discouraging--Now I'll try to encourage you some more.

I suggest point and shoot with the direct settings, in the evening hours, and you'll feel like Godzilla. I think twilight is the best way to disguise an amateur photographer. It has everything to do with color. But as Andy Lipschultz will attest there is in fact a magic hour in the movie business, and you better know what you want to get in that time, otherwise it will disappear quickly.

The next thing is composition. That's where you take all of the elements of your subject and make them work together in the shot. You must decide what your exact subject is on your shot. In the case of a golf hole, do you want it to be of a Bunker? Green, Rees-Pieces mound? If you just take a picture of the golf hole, it will come out lifeless, because you weren't putting the most focused area of the camera on the subject. Trust me, the people will know, not because of the quality of the way it came out, but because of the subject matter--your capturing a moment in time when you take a picture, and it's telling a story. If it's a dramatic golf hole, you need to concentrate on a subject or feature and everything else becomes the composition of what is going to hi-light it.

The best picture I think I have ever taken in my life was on a most inclement day, in January 21, 1999, when Lynn Shackelford and I braved the elements and got our complete round in at San Francisco Golf Club.

I look back and say to myself, why did I have my expensive digital camera out in that rain? and it's still baffles me, and the majority of the shots came out unfocused or just not very complete--souless if you will. But this one shot didn't. I had everything ready and set to point and shoot, and I think the finished product tells the story of that very moment.

I'll post the picture later as I have remvoed it from my webspace, but it's one I suspect some of you have seen before:

My subject was #7, the Duel Hole.

I had the rainy looking conditions, the green down the hill and in the background and you can tell it's somewhere of some historical importance; I also had the fairway of #8 going up the hill, and I managed by luck to grap the essence of that, which was equally surprizing, and while it was totally out of focus, and washed out, it worked with the composition of the shot. And then there was the one of the most important factor of all--Lynn Shackelford, left-handed glassy swing and all in full finish. You can tell in the photo the rain wasn't bothering that swing at that paticular moment in time. Both hands, griping the club as effortlessly as possible. It was perfect. I think the reason why is because it wasn't just Lynn Shac out there, it was what we wish for all of us--great course all to ourselves; No matter the conditions, we are golfers, and we will do anything to play at that paticular time the photo was taken. That's why its most important to me. Though the photo, given the conditions and the rank amateur taking it, sort of had me in it simply because it wasn't perfect, was slightly out of focus, and had the usual water-wash you get from digital photos on all of the sharp edges. But I had succeeded in making myself part of the compostion without actually being in the photo.

I may have been better served to just throw the camera away from that point on, because I haven't been able to take a great photo like that since. Obviously I didn't learn anything. But what do I do? Buy a better of course!

So yesterday I wanted to shot for the first time a part of a golf course. I'm out at the local dump--La Habra-Westridge. Why? Because I didn't want to drive the extra five minutes to Hacienda which isn't a very easy golf course to take photos of anyway, that is unless your twenty feet in the air. I also live about a 1/3 of a mile away from one of the worst golf courses on the planet. Is that luck or what?

The following picture will show you what I think is the best golf course photo I have taken yet with my new camera, and I'm not exactly happy with it. It was the worst part of the day, and it was partially cloudy and it was at the world's worst golf course.



Ding! Are you following me? Bad conditions, bad weather, bad golf course. Add a completely foolish group of humble Korean golfers who quite obviously are blind that this is such a bad golf course. Yet, they are wise enough to know what time twilight golf starts.

Other parts of my composition is the landscaping in the foreground, and unfortunately, the young tree in the right half of my shot. (I was taking this from my car on the entrance road)(right after I got done talking to Redanman and Rick Wolfe)

So in closing, I guess a photo should tell a story. The person looking at it might not be able to tell, but then it would be clear he isn't looking at or paying attention to the story being told--how else would one figure him to notice golf course features also? You know, like Matt Ward.

For the best practice, go to the Friars Head review and see for yourself. Actually test yourself to see what the pictures are telling you and what features are they focused on; or in this case, the detail shown in black & white.

I think good study of those pictures could make anyone an pretty decent photographer.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Also, felt it was neccessary to get in another jab at the Devil's handiwork--nice job Damian! (O.K. So what if he didn't know that Chevron would decide that their National Training Center didn't belong in the bedroom community of La Habra. I wish someone would have made the same decision when they gave the green light to build this golf course.)

The Chevron Training Center is now home to La Habra's very own Walmart, Sam's Club, and Lowe's. This is what La Habra needed--more commerical buildings. (Yea right!)

You can see the following views clearly from the first & 10th tees, as well as the front entrance to the clubhouse. Very nice planning. Or maybe 200 ton air conditioning units are "the new hazard" for golf?

[Dan Herrmann]

Not to sound like a luddite, but don't give up on silver-based photography yet.  You can probably get a better photograph with a $250 35mm film camera than you can get with a $1000 digital.  Of course, single lens reflex (SLR) is the way to go (I'm assuming that large format is out of the picture).

That's today.  

I'm betting that in a couple of years you won't see a difference.  There are some excellent digital SLR cameras out there, but they're out of my price range.  A friend has a Canon 10D with some awesome lenses.    If you're interested, check out http://pix.delmarvagroup.com to see his work.

He took a bunch of photos with me at French Creek GC, but we got sidetracked taking pics of the wildlife.

[Tim Taylor]

Thanks gang. You can see the photos in my thread "Goodbye to an old friend...", an ode to my former club.

TimT

[JohnV]

One further piece of advice on golf course photography.

DON'T TAKE A PICTURE WHEN IT IS YOUR TURN TO HIT!!!!!

I've seen more than one person who contributes to this group who insists on taking pictures when they should be hitting.  It gets very tiresome to get to every tee and see the person who should be hitting snapping another picture while we all wait.  Take it when someone else is hitting or as the group is walking off after hitting.  Many pictures look better when there is a person or group in the middle/foreground.  Or better yet, play golf and then go back out and take your pictures later, the light will probably be better anyway.

[Mike Benham]

One further piece of advice on golf course photography.

DON'T TAKE A PICTURE WHEN IT IS YOUR TURN TO HIT!!!!!

What John is implying, is always have honors on the tee, good play leads to having the time to take good photos ...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

(Thought to myself.......)

Gee, I wonder who John is talking about??

[JohnV]

Mike,
Actually, playing poorly also works.  Plenty of time to snap that shot if you are hitting last.  Plenty of time to watch others take pictures while I'm waiting to hit also.

Tommy,
It wasn't just one person I was thinking of.  And if it is a picture of a rattlesnake, you can take your time.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

John, I totally get what you are saying!

The same feeling I have when I'm standing at address on the tee ready to unleash that gauntlet of Italian meatball power, and my playing partners begin to laugh and chuckle when they have noticed from time to time my inadvertently being ever so slightly forward of the tee line.

There is a name and a rule for it, and it is one I like to forget as much as possible!

[Steve Pozaric]

I know “framing” is not something held in high regard here based on some discussions, but it helps in photography.  Some of my favorite pictures have a feature of some sort in the lower left or right corner that then travels up or across.  It helps the view “focus”.  Just a thought.  Also, go 1 stop either way to see what kind of difference lighting makes.  As an earlier poster said, don’t be afraid to turn around.  You can get some fantastic views that way.

Steve

[Andy_Lipschultz]

You can probably get a better photograph with a $250 35mm film camera than you can get with a $1000 digital.  Of (I'm assuming that large format is out of the picture).

100 percent correct IMO. Also, a black and white photograph is only achieved with black and white film. Simply setting your digital camera to b/w merely gives you a b/w effect; not a true b/w photo.

[Dan Kelly]

...a black and white photograph is only achieved with black and white film. Simply setting your digital camera to b/w merely gives you a b/w effect; not a true b/w photo.

Could you please explain the difference between a "true b/w photo" and a "b/w effect"?

Thanks.

[Andy_Lipschultz]

There is no consesus from my photog associates (who are all highly skilled and paid) on the best way to achieve a b/w print. While I work extensively with photographers, I am not one, so my info is from evesdropping and osmosis.

However, I think a better b/w print will result from the camera with film than the digital camera if both shooters merely, point (focus if need be), shoot and develop. A superior b/w digital image is obtained from a pro lab or someone intimately familar with PhotoShop. In Photo Shop youcan  use the red filtering effect (darkens the sky; lightens the green) an yellow (more definition in foliage). Even then, very few places can make a great b/w print.

But just doing the point, shoot and print it out with the digital is inferior to the person with b/w film.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mr. Lipshultz, I'm ready for my close-up! (Make sure to bring the really big wide angle)

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