[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

According to this article from either the 1934 or 1935 Hartford Courant (it is listed under two dates) William Flynn was hired by Wampanoag to make some changes to the course, including lengthening two pars 5s (11 and 12, wrongly identified as 10 and 11 in the story.) Whether the work was done, cannot at this time be established. It would mark one of the few courses in New England on which Flynn worked.

Anthony

[Pete Stankevich]

Both tees are stretched back about as far as they can go, so I'm sure both could've played shorter at some point.
#11 is around 460 yards playing uphill and #12 around 520 or so.  I'm sure they both played quite long back then, but today they're both easily reachable for strong players.  
Maybe Brad Klein would know, being a former member.

[wsmorrison]

It would be great if the records of the green committee still exist so that we can see exactly what Flynn recommended.  It would be helpful if the club has Ross's plans for the course that way we can see how close the par 5 holes and other holes correspond to the original plans.  I hope we can get Craig Disher to supply an aerial photograph of the course circa 1938-1940 so we can see what the course was like shortly after Flynn was there.  The more information we have, the better our chances are to see if the work Flynn suggested was done.  

It was not unusual for Flynn to make revisions to Ross courses.  Other Ross courses that I can recall which were redesigned by Flynn include:  Indian Spring, Sunnybrook, Beaver Dam, McCall Field Club, Pocono Manor, Old Course at The Homestead and Washington GCC.  Ross added a tee (15) and moved a green (14) at Flynn's Huntingdon Valley CC.

[TEPaul]

Wayno:

I thought you understood that Flynn never did anything at Wampanog or in Connecticut. Flynn did offer a plan to the club but then he realized that no self-respecting architecture should ever work in the state of Connecticut and most certainly not at a golf club that some told him Bradley Klein might someday become a member of.

[wsmorrison]

Tony recently made the discovery of the possible Flynn did design work at Wampanoag.  It seems clear that Flynn's expertise in turf grasses helped him get this and other design and redesign business.

"I thought you understood that Flynn never did anything at Wampanog or in Connecticut. Flynn did offer a plan to the club but then he realized that no self-respecting architecture should ever work in the state of Connecticut and most certainly not at a golf club that some told him Bradley Klein might someday become a member of."

Tom,

We'll have to make sure that Flynn's daughter never finds out.  At least now we know how Brad obtained a better understanding of golf course architecture than if he simply grew up with that immigrant hack, Ross.  I bet the Flynn holes are Brad's favorites on the course  

[Mike_Cirba]

It would be great if the records of the green committee still exist so that we can see exactly what Flynn recommended.  It would be helpful if the club has Ross's plans for the course that way we can see how close the par 5 holes and other holes correspond to the original plans.  I hope we can get Craig Disher to supply an aerial photograph of the course circa 1938-1940 so we can see what the course was like shortly after Flynn was there.  The more information we have, the better our chances are to see if the work Flynn suggested was done.  

It was not unusual for Flynn to make revisions to Ross courses.  Other Ross courses that I can recall which were redesigned by Flynn include:  Indian Spring, Sunnybrook, Beaver Dam, McCall Field Club, Pocono Manor, Old Course at The Homestead and Washington GCC.  Ross added a tee (15) and moved a green (14) at Flynn's Huntingdon Valley CC.

Wayne,,

Don't you mean that Flynn revised a Samuel Allen design at Pocono Manor?  

[wsmorrison]

"Don't you mean that Flynn revised a Samuel Allen design at Pocono Manor?"

It is looking more likely as you delve into a pile of research.  Keep it up!

[Brad Klein]

I doubt Flynn's plan resulted in did much of anything beyond Wampanog moving the 12th tee back 50 yards. (The Hartford Courant article mistakenly refers to the 10th & 11th as par-5s but actually it's the 11th & 12th).

The club has the big linen drawing of Ross' 1924 plan, many of which bunkers were never built, but the routing and tee/green sites were built s per plan. There's also a later plan with tree planting indications (!) from a few years later that Ross' firm provided. I have seen no other actual design documents until the very detailed blueprints of all the greens in two separate phases of work that Bill Diddel did there in the 1950s when the present "Ross" greens on most of the holes that certain acolytes swear by were created in terms of slope and position.

Wayne wants notes from the green committees? Please, who are you kidding? I doubt they ever met, much less took notes. For 30 years the place was ruled by a tyrant, Frank Ross (no relation), who decided all matters and brought his buddy, Bill Diddel, in. I really doubt that at the height of the Depression Flynn did much if anything there.

[TEPaul]

"I really doubt that at the height of the Depression Flynn did much if anything there."

Brad:

I used to think the same thing about the depression years and that there must not have been much redesign work going on at that time but I think Ron Prichard convinced me that wasn't exactly the case. At my club, for instance, there was more redesigning done in the decade of the 1930s than any other decade. When I mentioned to Ron that seems sort of counter-intuitive because of the depression he said a good many of those clubs were not stupid and they were well aware that particularly laborers could be had to do work for about 20 cents on the dollar and it made economic sense to many more clubs than one might suspect to get work done then. Pretty interesting.

[wsmorrison]

"Wayne wants notes from the green committees? Please, who are you kidding? I doubt they ever met, much less took notes."

I'm not kidding anybody, Brad.  The newspaper article often mentions the green committee, particularly B.N. Carvalho, the chairman of the green committee and assisted by C.F. Griffin, H.A. Hamilton, and F.D. Ross.  Perhaps Ross was not the tyrant ruler of the club at the time Flynn was asked to work on the course.

As for the notes, while I do refer to notes of the green committee (couldn't hurt to look), I was primarily regarding the report Flynn made for the club.  The article states,

A complete report of Mr. Flynn's suggestions has been left with the green committee...

Jon Spaulding, whose uncle is the GM of the club, will try to determine what, if any, archival material may still exist.  I think between his efforts and those of Tony Pioppi, the research may indeed determine what, if anything, was done by Flynn beyond agronomic advice.  Despite your doubts, we may find something yet.  By the way, Jon sent me a nice photograph of the Ross drawing, which I forwarded to Tony.

The CT database has a photograph from 1934.  If Craig Disher can locate a photograph in the Nat'l Archives, they usually date 1938-1940 so we may be able to straddle the time suggested by the newspaper article when Flynn may have done work on the course.

[michael_j_fay]

Eleven and twelve were # 10 and 11 until the clubhouse was built in 1953. The old clubhouse was on North Main Street. The course started on #2 and played to the first green. The name of the second hole is "old first".  

[wsmorrison]

The 1924 Ross drawing shows that 11 and 12 were short par 5s (449 and 461 yards respectively).  The 10th was 380 yards.  It sure looks like these were par 5s for a time.  Perhaps changes did occur afterwards and prior to the clubhouse move.

[wsmorrison]

From Jon Spaulding:

[michael_j_fay]

Wayne:

The Ross plan from 1924 was designed in a fashion for the clubhouse to be where it is today. The Club did not place it there until 1953, instead they used an old farm house at the end of the block on the main drag for a club house.

The original offering to prospective members showed drawings of a beautiful Florentine club house that was never built. When the clubhouse was built where it currently stands it was designed by a local firm that specialized in schools (primarily Catholic grammar schools). That is why Wampanoag has a 1950's disaster for a club house today.

The Ross drawing you have shows the course as it is today without the countless changes made over the years. Frank Ross won the 1927 Connecticut State Amateur Championship while playing at a course called Sequin CC which is today Indian Hill. His name appears on the Club Champions plaque at Wampanoag in 1928 and remained with few interruptions until 1960 or so.

I knew Frank Ross (as well as a youngster could know a regular member) and he was a dictator. More than likely he left no notes as he had the final say until around 1965. I will give him credit that he kept the course in fantastic condition at al times. He shepherded the greens all those years and they were always considered the best in the State. They still are today.

Diddell did work there through the 1960's. I believe the last green he modified was #9 in 1969.

[wsmorrison]

Well, thank you very much for clearing that up, Michael.  Interesting story.  By any chance, do you have any photographs of the course that can be posted?

[John Kirk]

I sure like the drawing.  Look how nice and close the greens and tees are.  Look at all the short loops available to members for play at dusk!

[Jon Spaulding]

Well, thank you very much for clearing that up, Michael.  Interesting story.  By any chance, do you have any photographs of the course that can be posted?

Here is a link to a few photos I put up a while back after returning from a brief visit:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=31509;start=msg615350#msg615350

I have a number more and can put up to an ftp site as required.

[Brad Klein]

Wayne -- old fashioned form of posting photos, I know, but my "Discovering Donald Ross" has a whole chapter worth of images and text on Wampanoag's design history, about 15 of them in 15 pages. (When your Flynn book comes out you'll be able to sympathize with my response.)

[wsmorrison]

It is interesting to study the tees in the Ross drawing for Wampanoag.  

I notice that some of the holes have single tees and others have multiple tees.  This is true for par 3 and par 4 holes.  The par 5 11th and 12th holes in the drawing have just one slightly longer than average tee apiece.  Many of the tees depicted in the Ross drawing are small and rectangular while others are large and irregularly shaped.  Hole #6 has a square tee and an irregularly shaped tee.  The 1st and 10th tees are back to back.  If length was needed in a limited play event, could you play from the back of the 1st tee to the 10th and the back of the 10th tee to the 1st?

Brad,

Thanks, I'll check out the Wampanoag chapter in your book.

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