The good thing about no trees: Bulls Bay overheads

« **on:** January 14, 2008, 06:05:25 PM »

...you can see 14 holes of this golf course from the clubhouse!

This is Mike Strantz's view from up in heaven, number 14. Look at the undulations! And the natural amphitheatre effect is great for watching tournaments like the Hootie at Bulls Bay NCAA college shootout:

Here's another favorite hole, number 2. Even the college stars like Webb Simpson and that Luke List (Liszt?) thought twice about trying to reach it in two...

« **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:21:49 PM »

Very nice looking course, if its anything like the other Strantz courses I have played, it will be very great. Does anyone here have access to the course? I would like to play there on my way to Florida.

« **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:22:59 PM »

Jay,

Do the undulations blend into the fairways, or do they tend to stop at the edges?

It's difficult to tell from the aerials, but it appears more the latter.. Please educate me, as I know you and a number of others are very high on BB.

« **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:27:10 PM »

--From the pictures it would seem that the contours continue into the fairways, just not as severely as on the sides. Tobacco Road is much the same.

« **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:28:31 PM »

Wow. Simply stunning. I've had the pleasure of playing 3 Strantz courses, but nothing in S.C.

Though not everyone likes his brand of architecture, I imagine few would argue against the striking beauty of his layouts.

« **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:28:54 PM »

The tie ins blend seamlessly: Here's some pix. The first is the 14th...

And here's 18 approach..

« **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:31:52 PM »

Thanks, Jay. Appreciate the visual aids.

« **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:37:20 PM »

One thing that I notice, something that comes up on here a lot, is the bunkering. While I think that everyone admits that Strantz was a mininalist, some of the bunkers are ragged and some are cut and straight. Yet the all look mostly natural. Just an interesting comparison for those who think courses must all have ragged bunkering.

« **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:43:59 PM »

Now check out the green contours...this green's left side runs away from the player...

Now go back to the photos of 14 above...doesn't the bunker cut diagonally from back left to front right? Isn't there a hill to the right of the green bouncing balls to the left, feeding them to back left hole locations.

This is a form of a redan! Its even the same length (abt 190).

Also...this is another favorite hole, number 9. I lost a bet to Forrest Fezler on this hole. He bet me he could beat me giving me a stroke, handed me his driver, remarking "Don't put a dummy mark on it..." and I went to the tips. I relaxed, reminded myself to swing slowly and smoothly and put a nice easy big turn on the ball, and right on my backswing Forrest and about ten of our buddies watching all yell...

"AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!"

I think I hit it thirty yards...we still laugh about it...

« **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:10:13 PM »

Kinda reminds me of the Irish course at Whistling Straits.

« **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Johnny M on January 14, 2008, 06:37:20 PM

One thing that I notice, something that comes up on here a lot, is the bunkering. While I think that everyone admits that Strantz was a mininalist, some of the bunkers are ragged and some are cut and straight. Yet the all look mostly natural. Just an interesting comparison for those who think courses must all have ragged bunkering.

Johnny,
Strantz was a brilliant and innovative architect, but I don't think anyone would call him a minimalist.

« **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:20:36 PM »

Jeff-I thought about that wording when I wrote it. Perhaps I mean more...'naturalist?' I know at Tobacco Road the course works with the surroundings very well. In most places it looks like he just threw down some grass seed and let it grow. I know thats not what he did, but it does look that way.

« **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:51:12 PM »

From the 2006 Dixie Cup, you can get a feel for Stranz's use of slopes and angles......

My approach on 18 hung up past the hole toward the clubhouse:

As a side note, this chip was already running..... I'd played it another two feet or so right of the ball's position. It ran out to about 4 feet, then.....

I've gotta love an archie where I can do that!!

Jamey

« **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:19:08 PM »

Here is a link to the photo album we created for the "Strantz Mini-Tour" Dixie Cup:

http://www.clemsonsports.com/Photo_Albums/DixieCup/index.html

There are a few good photos of Bulls Bay, as well as some shots of Caledonia and True Blue.

« **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:25:39 PM »

Jay - Where did you get those shots of Bulls Bay... they're great! Are there any more? Can I get high-def copies?

« **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2008, 04:09:41 PM »

Quote from: matt kardash on January 14, 2008, 07:10:13 PM

Kinda reminds me of the Irish course at Whistling Straits.

Funny you should say that, but Forrest Fezler told me that Pete Dye said the same thing...and that he liked the way strantz exceuted the look here.

This course was where he moved the most earth...like doak had to at Rawls course, the landscape had to be built first and then the holes routed over it. Like the rawls course (which was 1 ft or less of elevation change - a cotton field), strantz also had a one - foot elevation change over a huge tomato field.

In most instances - particularly Royal New Kent and stonehouse, strantz actually only moved about 200,000 cubic yards...he merely scooped out the low points and built up the high points to give the illusion of moving more earth.

Mike, there is only one other flyover...but its of hole 2. I'll send.

« **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2008, 06:44:08 PM »

great overhead pics Jay........it still reminds me of Shinnecock with the clubhouse up on the bluff......I know BBay was all manufactured, but it is a fun time!

« **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2008, 07:23:26 PM »

Looks like an interesting place to play.

That second hole which bends almost back on itself reminds me of the course guide pictures of a couple of the holes at Tobacco Road (11th or 4th?? I think). No water in those cases but the same sort of "play the angles" risk reward.

Is this a common Strantz theme on his other courses (the banana shaped hole?) I notice that tobacco road looks like none of the holes really play that straight (esp off the tee). ie rather than say hitting to the best position to attack the pin on a straight wide(r) fairway, you face the decision of how much forced carry you dare on most shots. Nothing wrong with having to make decisions like this as it keeps it interesting but does it get a bit much if every hole does this?

« **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:03:21 PM »

Quote from: Dieter Jones on January 15, 2008, 07:23:26 PM

Is this a common Strantz theme on his other courses (the banana shaped hole?)

Yes, Mike liked this type hole very much. Here are a couple more of this style:

#4 at True Blue

#2 at Royal New Kent

« **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:07:45 PM »

Yes, number 4 at Tobacco Road does come back on itself like the holes pictured. Number 11 does not do it as much. I do like the idea of making holes like that so that people can reach the green in two shots if they want to risk it.

« **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2008, 11:49:22 PM »

There is quite a bit of fish hook in #13 at BB as well, with very strategic contouring in the FW. Placement is everything on that hole. Mike Strantz was certainly not shy to provide plenty of width and options. Perhaps he was one of the most prominent modern architect users of width. Below is a site map of BB on a pdf file that you can zoom in.

http://www.bullsbaygolf.com/RFsiteplan.pdf

Frank Pont has one of the most intimite and accurate photo essays on Bulls Bay that one could ask for:

http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/S%20Carolina/Bulls%20Bay/index.html

« **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2008, 08:24:12 AM »

Quote from: Michael Whitaker on January 15, 2008, 09:03:21 PM

Quote from: Dieter Jones on January 15, 2008, 07:23:26 PM
Is this a common Strantz theme on his other courses (the banana shaped hole?)

Yes, Mike liked this type hole very much. Here are a couple more of this style:

#4 at True Blue

#2 at Royal New Kent

The first time I saw this style hole was on the 16th at Tom Fazio's Osprey Ridge GC in Disney.

I know Strantz was an associate of Fazio at the time, so I'm wondering if there is any connection.

« **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:08:42 AM »

I am a little embarrassed to ask this question, but I did not know about Mike Stranz until I found this website. (Maybe other newbies are in the same situation?) I thought he was a young guy, can someone here tell us more about him and how he died?

« **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2008, 10:42:25 AM »

Bill--I think the websites at Tobacco Road and Bulls Bay give a decent bio of Strantz. You can also get a bio from his design website, if its still up. All I can remember is that he worked for Fazio at one time and died of throat cancer even though he never smoked.

« **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2008, 01:11:21 PM »

Bill, here's my Golf Observer article on Mike.

http://www.golfobserver.com/features/Flemma/Strantz_021507.php

Brother William:) Salve, magister! Yes, you're right, thirteen is almost a circus maximus, its so round...and Mike W., great find on 2 at tobacco road. That hole does look like 2 at BB and also is derived a little from 13 at The Dunes, at least Mike said he "later noticed a resemblence."

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