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Matthew Delahunty

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Swinley Forest - photos
« on: December 29, 2007, 06:08:08 AM »
On a trip to Europe in October, I had the privilege of playing at Swinley Forest and West Sussex. Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to catch up with the local GCAers but that was due in part to me being out of regular contact (in Eastern Europe) prior to getting to London. Hopefully, Ill be more organised next time.

Anyway, here are some pics of Swinley. It was an overcast day and, teeing off at 8am, I encountered a heavy dew, the likes I'm never likely to experience back home here in Melbourne. And the fog never lifted which made take good photos an impossibility.

Opener


2nd green:


3rd green:


4th:


5th:



6th green:


From behind the 8th:


9th


11th:




12th


13:


14th:


15:


16:


17:



18:







Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2007, 06:42:33 AM »
Wonderfully atmospheric pictures - far better than on some bright, sunny day! The dew helps to show the subtleties of the contours - that's the best picture of the 17th I've seen. It looks as though you had the place all to yourself. Thanks for posting.

Don Hyslop

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 06:55:46 AM »
 The heather surrounding many of the sand traps is a thing of beauty.
Thompson golf holes were created to look as if they had always been there and were always meant to be there.

Eric Franzen

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 07:12:27 AM »
Nice photos.

The 17th looks really intriguing. Does the putting surface slope a bit from back to front?

Tom_Doak

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 07:32:44 AM »
Matthew:

Wonderful pictures.  It has been twenty years since I played there and I had started to forget some of the holes.

One I did not remember well (because I don't think I ever took a photo of it) was the 18th.  In your photo it certainly looks like there could have been more fairway to the left of the second bunker at one time, so that a player who drove over the first bunker and left of the second avoided the large bunkers further up  near the green -- does anyone know if that was the case in olden days?

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 08:36:06 AM »
Thanks Matt, the fog gives the photo's a mystical quality  - appropriate.

More of your thoughts please.  Was this your first heathalnd course and how would you place it/them in terms of quality.  Same division as the Sandbelt courses or a notch or two below?

My one visit to Swinley made a big impreson on me and Id certainly rate it a stop tier Heathland.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 08:36:30 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

wsmorrison

Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 08:52:10 AM »
This is one of my favorite places in golf.  I'm looking forward to a return visit in June.  Thanks for getting me even more excited for the visit!

Chip Gaskins

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 12:11:44 PM »
wow, awesome pics.  wonder if anyone will every build a course like this again.  does anyone think that a hole like 17 would be accepted/praised if it were built to look like that today?

George Pazin

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 12:27:42 PM »
Thanks for the pix.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dan Boerger

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 12:48:34 PM »
Thank you for sharing. Those are some incredible pictures and this is one course I would really like to play someday.

I, too, will be London in June (Surrey to be precise). Unfortunately, this is not on the list. What a special place.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Sandy Smith

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2007, 01:24:48 PM »
Those are probably the best pictures of a course this side of Brian Morgan's work I have seen .
Thanks
Firm greens, firmer fairways.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2007, 01:38:50 PM »
The pictures are great.  I played it on a sunny summer day, and I agree you can see more "movement" of the ground in these pictures.
A truly unique place that I hope doesn't change.  It is a place to study Colt's work.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

George Pazin

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2007, 04:04:57 PM »
Does anyone else look at these wonderful photos and get the sense that the greenkeeper would be fired if this were a prominent US club?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dan Herrmann

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2007, 04:28:02 PM »
George - unfortunately, yes - that greenkeeper would be canned.  

I'll tell you - these are exciting pictures.  I love the bunkering and the heather.

Could you grow heather like this in North America?   The only place I've experienced heather was at Bandon.

Matthew Delahunty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 01:54:11 AM »
Thanks for all the compliments.

I was reasonably happy with my shots. I was first off in the morning, ahead of a society day, so technically I had the course to myself to take it all in and take some photos. But by the 4th I had a group up my rear so the photos dried up a bit between 6 and 11 so I could put some space between them.

Most of the photos were taken on a cheapie Canon compact digital which is great for taking anywhere. However, the batteries ran out and I left the spares in my car, so 15-18 are on film.


Thanks Matt, the fog gives the photo's a mystical quality  - appropriate.

More of your thoughts please.  Was this your first heathalnd course and how would you place it/them in terms of quality.  Same division as the Sandbelt courses or a notch or two below?

My one visit to Swinley made a big impreson on me and Id certainly rate it a stop tier Heathland.

Tony,

Swinley was my first heathland experience and I was very impressed.

This is certainly a top notch course. If comparing it to something on the sandbelt, I'd probably liken it to Kingston Heath, or a mix of KH, Commonwealth and Woodlands.

I would imagine that it might not appeal to everyone because apart from say 4 and 17, it lacks the spectacular. But it's the design which is so exciting. It's all the little subtleties which make this course great - interesting green complexes, great routing (placing 8 between 7 and 9 is something few people may have come up with) and placing an emphasis on position off the tee. There were several times when I struck good drives only to find that when I got to my ball I was not in the best position to attack the pin (next time I will be wiser). What's more, the best spot on the fairway will change depending on pin position, such is the strength of the green design. It's a course which really makes you think, because if you don't you'll rack up a score very quickly.

The other thing I noted was the condition of the course. Having heard about he floods in the area some months before, I expected the worst. But the course was in excellent condition. The green surfaces had a magnificent cover of grass and they were very, very firm. Only a well struck shot would hold. They were a little slow for someone who is used to playing in Melbourne but I have nothing but praise for them.

It was probably a good time of year to play as the course belies its short yardage. It would be interesting to compare to dry summer conditions.

Aside from that, Swinley is very pretty and makes good use of the heather.

Lastly, the drinks cart (with its selection of Scotch whiskey) is something many golfers would die for.

And a few more pics: (1, 4/5 and 18)



Jeff Doerr

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 02:12:36 AM »
George - unfortunately, yes - that greenkeeper would be canned.  

I'll tell you - these are exciting pictures.  I love the bunkering and the heather.

Could you grow heather like this in North America?   The only place I've experienced heather was at Bandon.

Dan,

I kept thinking the entire Pacific Northwest could grow heather like that. A few courses out here could really benefit from look and upkeep of Swinley Forest.

Others,

What has been your expereince in playing out of heather? It seems like it would be playable, but tough - as opposed to ice plant.
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2007, 06:22:45 AM »
Jeff,

Heather wraps itself around the club tending to close the face. In thickish heather the only real option is to open the blade on a wedge or sand wedge and proceed 70 or 80 yards up the fairway. Any attempt to try and shake off the penalty and blast out with a longer club will usually either leave the ball in the heather or cause a pull straight left into the heather on the other side of the course!

I remember playing with a rather good lady in the Worplesdon scratch mixed foursomes. From 200yds out she would rarely miss the green with a spoon. However leave her 100yds out but in the heather and she could barely move the ball.

Whilst heather banks on bunkers are IMO a feature of beauty they can exact a cruel punishment compared to a ball 24 inches away in the sand.
Cave Nil Vino

Kevin Pallier

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2007, 07:08:02 AM »
Matthew

Some great photos - look forward to seeing those of West Sussex as well.


Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2007, 12:12:05 PM »
Jeff,

Heather wraps itself around the club tending to close the face. In thickish heather the only real option is to open the blade on a wedge or sand wedge and proceed 70 or 80 yards up the fairway. Any attempt to try and shake off the penalty and blast out with a longer club will usually either leave the ball in the heather or cause a pull straight left into the heather on the other side of the course!

I remember playing with a rather good lady in the Worplesdon scratch mixed foursomes. From 200yds out she would rarely miss the green with a spoon. However leave her 100yds out but in the heather and she could barely move the ball.

Whilst heather banks on bunkers are IMO a feature of beauty they can exact a cruel punishment compared to a ball 24 inches away in the sand.

Thanks Mark.

I do like that you can still play the ball in some fashion from the heather. From the look of it a course in our area that could really replicate the heathland look would be Bandon Crossings, among manny others.
Beyond heather, I really like the look of gorse on a course, but it is an inescapable nightmare/an above ground water hazard with thorns.

Cheers, Jeff
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 12:37:57 PM »
I played a round at Forest Dunes (east of Traverse City, MI) last summer and really enjoyed it.   As the name suggests, half the course is in the woods and the balance is in an open area with sandy wastes and some dunesy areas.  

There were several tee shots in the forest that have to carry over a field of what looks a lot like heather.  Very lovely and fun - here's the strokesaver image of par 5 #15, wish I had photos -



I agree with the comments above about how difficult it is to extract an errant shot from the heather.  Beau Desert - do not drive into the heather!  :o

Lloyd_Cole

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2007, 01:36:00 PM »
The cut, or shallow gully along the left side of the 2nd is beautiful. Was this based upon an existing feature, or a bridal path perhaps? It looks like it was always there. It certainly adds weight to the no bunker naturalist argument. If one has a feature as cool as this one certainly doesn't need sand.

ed_getka

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2007, 07:28:04 PM »
Matthew,
   Thanks for sharing. Absolutely fabulous looking course and pix. Please pick out one hole that you particularly liked and give more details of the strategy and what was going on at the green end.
   It looks like a course that would appeal to a broad range of playing levels.

#17 looks like a daunting hole. What club were you hitting into that green?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 07:30:40 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2007, 10:24:29 PM »
Isn't it great how the "forest" creates separation on each hole but doesn't intrude on play.  I know many courses which would benefit from maintaining the width in this way.  

How true to the original design is the course today?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 10:25:38 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Sean_A

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2007, 06:23:52 AM »
Isn't it great how the "forest" creates separation on each hole but doesn't intrude on play.  I know many courses which would benefit from maintaining the width in this way.  

How true to the original design is the course today?

Dan

I do believe the routing is 100% original.  There have been bunkers added (and after searching a bit I discovered that the left bunker on 18 is newish), but there are still not that many.  An awful pond on #5 was added not so long ago.  Though this area seems to be a bit wet in general so it could be to help drainage - a stream runs across the fairway feeding the pond.  I suspect the greens are untouched as the club has a reputation for keeping them slowish so there would have been little need to alter slopes for green speeds.  In fact, the club has a reputation for minimal maintenance, but it doesn't suffer for it.  As for the forest, the place doesn't really need trees to influence play despite the short yardage.  Heather seems to turn its head round every corner.  I have never played a course in which heather influences play so much and that stuff is a serious penalty!

Swinley really is a wonderful club and surprisingly very laid back.  It hasn't been all that long since visitors have been accepted.  The finally figured out that visitor money helps keep costs down.  Though it is my impression that the club doesn't collect nearly as much visitor money as it could despite the enormous (one of the most expensive in the country) green fee.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 31, 2007, 06:25:57 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Andrew Mitchell

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Re:Swinley Forest - photos
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2008, 04:09:19 AM »
Matthew
Great pictures of a very private course, which doesn't get much publicity here in the UK.

Sean
I thought Swinley was a members only course.  Do they now accept unaccompanied visitors?

New Year resolution - I really must spend some time playing golf in the South East of England.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

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