[Jim Franklin]

I have heard this phrase regarding Ballyneal and wondered, for those that have played both, if this is their opinion of Ballyneal.

Since it is my thread, I will go first. I do not think Ballyneal is anywhere near "Sand Hills Lite". I think both courses can stand on their own merits. I would have a hard time, if given the opportunity to play both 10 times to pick anything other than 5 and 5. To me, that does not say "Lite", but it does say in the same ballpark.

I like the fairway movement at Ballyneal, but the greens at Sand Hills are probably the best greens I have played. Ballyneal's greens are wild and will get better with age. It may be difficult, due to the internal contours at BN, to ever get them to Sand Hills speed because they could become unplayable when the wind kicks up.

Anyway, what do others think.

[RJ_Daley]

Jim, I'd have to be unkind and say that anyone who would denigrate BN as a "SH lite" would have to get my stamp of disapproval as an idiot.

They would be correct if they said the two courses were different or not just a copy.  They would be correct if they observed that the daily atmosphere and playing conditions were different.  They would be correct if they said that the greens design and approach strategies were quite different, along with the teeing grounds and looks into FWs, widths, angles and optional tee shots.  

But, they'd be completely wrong if they said one was a lite version of the other, which ever way they graded that issue.

[PThomas]

Ballyneal stands firmly on its own merits imho Jim

[cary lichtenstein]

I preferred Ballyneal to Sand Hills.

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

Agree with the thoughts mentioned by the others.

If one were to apply the tag Sand Hills "lite" likely Wild Horse in nearby Gothenburg would be the more likely connection because while the former is private the latter provides a very rough connection on what you experience when playing at the Mullen layout.

There's nothing at Ballyneal that's "lite" when stacked up against Sand Hills. The Doak course will mature as each year passes and it's probable in my mind that a good natured comparison / contrast bwteen the two will ultimately develop -- if it has not already.

[Mark Smolens]

Never been to Sand Hills, but if Ballneal is anywhere's "lite," I'd sure like to make the trip. . .

[Mark Smolens]

Never been to Sand Hills, but if Ballneal is anywhere's "lite," I'd sure like to make the trip. . .

[Jim Franklin]

Maybe I have the wrong title for my thread. I would really like to hear a discussion between the two courses.

After reading Chip's thoughts that Ballyneal will fail really got me thinking about the two courses.

Also I remember Matt was going to go hole by hole at some point between the two. I value Matt's opinion as he has seen a great variety of the courses out there. Maybe Matt can give us his hole by hole at some point (or not )

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, Without knowing Chip's affiliation or his motves for making that statement, please do not consider it reliable and please stop making reference to it. The owner's and member's resolves are great and BN will not fail.

Ballyneal's walking only policy is another factor in the differences. Also, The lack of cart traffic means BN puts less water down than they do in Mullen.

[Jerry Kluger]

Jim: The only area where Ballyneal might be viewed as "liter" than SH is it's lack of the porch at Ben's Cabin.  Sitting on that porch gives you the sense that the course is enormous and besides that you can see for miles.  BN is perhaps more intimate but by no means would I offhandedly say that it is a "lite" version of SH.  I can't point to any particular hole or feature but to me, and this is strictly personal and not objective, I feel that BN is much closer to Friar's Head than it is to SH. Please understand, FH is one of my favorite courses and which one of the 3 is the best to me is a tossup.  

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

Yes, you have a good memory -- I did say I would provide such an analysis.

I have to say this though -- my only time at Sand Hills came roughly ten years ago and although I played multiple rounds when there -- changes have happened at the course since then. For me to compare a playing experience from ten years ago to one of more current times would be a bit lacking in terms of overall completeness. If people still want me to provide it I can do it with the situation I just mentioned noted.

I am a big fan of Ballyneal and wish the folks there all the luck in the world with what they have. Doak did a stellar job there and I can easily recall the features of each and every hole there.

What makes Ballyneal so special is that when you enter Hoyloke you have no real idea on just how good the land is at the course because the town itself is the epitome of utter flatness.

[Craig Sweet]

Just a question, but aside from having just played Sand Hills, would sitting on Ben's porch be such a big deal to someone that lives in Montana...or Nebraska??

[Adam Clayman]

Craig, My guess is that any golfer would salivate while soaking in all that is to see.

[Jed Peters]

I have not had the chance to play Ballyneal (oh my, how I could only hope/wish to one day have the chance to tee it up here) but I could imagine based on the pictures, idea, and design work that it should be standing on its own merits.

While I'm not familiar with the business goings-on, I would imagine that this place is a VERY special place--and there is room in this world for very special places.

[Kyle Henderson]

I have not had the chance to play Ballyneal (oh my, how I could only hope/wish to one day have the chance to tee it up here) but I could imagine based on the pictures, idea, and design work that it should be standing on its own merits.

While I'm not familiar with the business goings-on, I would imagine that this place is a VERY special place--and there is room in this world for very special places.

Join the line...

[Geoffrey Childs]

Ballyneal is a very special place and a very special golf course.

Like Sand Hills it has a developer, Rupert O'Neil, who totally loves the land that occupies the golf course and is dedicated to giving members and guests a very special experience with every visit. A highlight of my trip was an ATV tour of the surrounding land that is possibly proposed for another golf course.  Ballyneal can and will stand on its own as one of the best golf courses built in "modern times" and with its maturation it will only get better. I drive 1 hour or 1 hr. 15 minutes each way in CT traffic to go to Yale 25 times a year.  Driving 2 1/2 - 3 hrs to get to Ballyneal from Denver is a pittance and once there the accomodations and food are top shelf all the way. It is NO BIG DEAL at all.

To compare it with Sand Hills, the #1 modern golf course and possibly the greatest course on the planet with terms like Sand Hills lite is a disservice to Ballyneal just as it would be to call Pacific Dunes, The Ocean Course, Whistling Straits or Victoria National   Sand Hills lite. I understand the comparison and it is frankly a compliment of the highest order just to mention them both together BUT it was not meant that way and so I too take some offense in that comparison. Frankly there are only two private club opportunities in the US that offer a totally secluded world class links experience with great accomodations, food and golf.  One of them, Sand Hills has a fully booked membership.  The other is Ballyneal.  If I had the means I would join myself.

The members are lucky.  Their guests are lucky.

[PThomas]

   If I had the means I would join myself.

i've said the above myself in the past

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played Sand Hills probably a dozen times and Ballyneal only once.  They occupy similar land.  Sand Hills terrain may have larger dunes and may be a tad hillier.  I think one thing you see from the time you finally get to the first tee at Sand hills is its massiveness.  I played Dismal River and Ballyneal on succeding days.  I like Dismal River a lot.  I loved Ballyneal.  I don't know how to compare the three courses let alone Ballyneal and Sand Hills.  Let's just say if I had the opportunity to play one, I would make it a point to play the others as well.

To be honest, there had been so much talk about Ballyneal on this site that I went there wondering if it could really live up to everything that was said.  It took about four holes before I decided it was very special.  I really like the way the greens were set and the bunkering around the greens.  

One interesting note and I'm not sure it has to do with the course or the way my wife played, but she thought that Ballyneal required higher shots into the greens than Dismal River.  It is a shot she doesn't possess any more.  It is not necessarily a criticism as much as an observation.  Personally I didn't notice the difference.  

[Mike Hendren]

"Tastes great.  Less filling."

Perhaps a reasonable statement in the context of this thread.  

Mike  

[Jim Nugent]

Match play between Ballyneal and SH might be interesting.  I don't think it gives a completely accurate picture, but am curious to see how the two stack up, hole by hole.  Does Ballyneal need more time to mature?  

[John Kavanaugh]

   If I had the means I would join myself.

i've said the above myself in the past

These types of comments always interest me coming from people who travel extensively playing the newest and best courses.  What percentage of a monthly income would you pay to join Ballyneal.  Would you pay 2%?  Assume a waiver of the initiation fee.

[Jim Franklin]

   If I had the means I would join myself.

i've said the above myself in the past

These types of comments always interest me coming from people who travel extensively playing the newest and best courses.  What percentage of a monthly income would you pay to join Ballyneal.  Would you pay 2%?  Assume a waiver of the initiation fee.

I don't think the monthlys are the problem because you cannot assume a waiver of initiation. If there was a waiver of initiation, sign me up.

[Jim Franklin]

Adam -

I apologize for bringing up a previous quote. I certainly meant no harm. I also believe that Ballyneal will be fine.

[John Kavanaugh]

Geoffrey deleted his so I deleted mine.  I even tire of fighting.

[Scott Szabo]

   If I had the means I would join myself.

i've said the above myself in the past

These types of comments always interest me coming from people who travel extensively playing the newest and best courses.  What percentage of a monthly income would you pay to join Ballyneal.  Would you pay 2%?  Assume a waiver of the initiation fee.

I don't think the monthlys are the problem because you cannot assume a waiver of initiation. If there was a waiver of initiation, sign me up.

Agree 100% - the annual dues aren't the problem, it's the up front cost that's keeping me from becoming a member.  And sadly, I only live an hour from Ballyneal.

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