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Bill Shamleffer

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Charles Price and Beethoven
« on: December 16, 2007, 07:34:52 PM »
Today is the suspected birthday of Ludwig Van Beethoven.  So of course this made me think of Charles Price.

The first golf book I ever bought was a collection of essays by Charles Price.  The book is GOLFER-AT-LARGE.  I highly recommend purchasing it online from a used books dealer.  Some of his essays deal with golf course architecture and were my introduction to the process of discussing and critiquing golf course architecture.

He even discusses minimalism in golf course architecture.

What does this have to do with Beethoven?  Price's bio at the back of the book has one of my favorite quotes:

"I do not permit talking when I listen to Beethoven.  If you have something more important to say than he did, I'll turn him off and listen to you."
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

David Stamm

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2007, 07:53:00 PM »


"I do not permit talking when I listen to Beethoven.  If you have something more important to say than he did, I'll turn him off and listen to you."



Priceless Bill! I feel the same way about Bach and Mozart!
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom_Doak

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2007, 07:54:17 PM »
Bill:

I read that book many years ago but don't have a copy.  I'm curious what he said about minimalism [and I'd be shocked if it was under that label].

PThomas

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2007, 08:14:47 PM »
I enjoyed Price's work...his "The World of Golf" is a great history

and alibris.com has copies of the above and Golfer at Large REALLY cheap!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike_Cirba

Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2007, 09:18:50 PM »
I learned from reading Charles Price that it's not only redundant to have high grass protecting sand protecting a water hazard, but it's wasteful as well.   I do seem to recall him coining the phrase "double penalty", to describe such an all too uncommon modern occurance.

Bob_Huntley

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2007, 11:17:30 PM »
Bill,

A few years before he died we had a lengthy conversation of the life and times of Bobby Jones.

Both of them were very heavy smokers. Charles would some- how always have a way of lighting Jones cigarettes without it becoming apparent that the great man was almost powerless to flick a lighter.

He also told me how Jones signed every letter that went out from his office with the pen stuck through a tennis ball, the only way he could control his signature.


Bob

Mike_Trenham

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2007, 11:39:02 PM »
Saw him speak once in Pinehurst, what a treat.

Charles Price to Tour Player: Why am I not good enough?

Tour Player to Charles Price: You see most tour players are built like truck drivers and have the touch of a hairdresser and you are built like a hairdresser and have the touch of a truck driver.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Bill Shamleffer

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2007, 09:45:37 AM »
I leafed through GOLFER-AT-LARGE last night and I can not find any reference to minimalism per se.  This book does have the essay referenced by Mr. Cirba about the problems with "double negatives" in golf course architecture.  I too have always remembered that line.

I know my memory plays tricks with me, but I recall Charles Price talking about the art of Picasso and comparing it to the ideal golf course architecture, that nothing should be included that is unnecessary.  Perhaps this was from one of his articles in Golf Digest, or perhaps my memory is wrong.

Nevertheless, while leafing through this book again I realized how much great stuff about architecture is in this book.  Over the winter, I will occasionally post some of the interesting quotes I came across.  Some will just be an interesting read, but some others may lead to some good debates.

I do know that of all of those issues of golf magazines that I read in my youth, most of the stuff that stuck with me was written by either Charles Price or Peter Dobereiner.  I knew nothing about John Ball until Charles Price wrote about him.  Peter Dobereiner had the same 10 club debate we have had on this site, but he wrote his article over 20 years ago.

It is nice the read the above posts and to see that others learned from Mr. Price’s writings and thoughts on golf.  I did see that GOLFER-AT-LARGE was selling for a couple of bucks on alibris.com.

Finally, I consider myself very fortunate that while in high school and college, I was able to read Charles Price and Peter Dobereiner every month in Golf Digest, John Updike's annual Golf Digest essay, Herbert Warren Wind a few times a year in the New Yorker, and then Golf Journal eight times a year.  What golf writers are today's magazines exposing to the next generation of golfers?
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

KBanks

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Re:Charles Price and Beethoven
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2007, 10:26:20 AM »
Bill,

A few years before he died we had a lengthy conversation of the life and times of Bobby Jones.

Both of them were very heavy smokers. Charles would some- how always have a way of lighting Jones cigarettes without it becoming apparent that the great man was almost powerless to flick a lighter.

He also told me how Jones signed every letter that went out from his office with the pen stuck through a tennis ball, the only way he could control his signature.


Bob

A postscript to Bob Huntley's anecdote.
 
Somewhere anthologized is an essay by Charles Price about the last days of Bob Jones. It mentions how Price would contrive to light Jones' cigarettes for him.

The essay ends with a description of a letter from Jones, written very shortly before he died, in which the lighter used by Price in his office was enclosed with a note: "You didn't fool me one bit".

Ken

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