[Nick Church]

I'm watching the '97 US Open highlights on GC.  It got me to thinking of the US Open "rota" and how few times it visits the far west.  Then I realize the upcoming Open is headed to Torrey Pines ---- and all the controversy that comes with those renovations.

So I wonder, are there other courses in California that are worthy of a US Open --- other than the requisite Pebble Beach, Olympic, and Riviera?

By worthy, I mean those courses that wouldn't require a facelift by the likes of the "doctor" Jones.  No disrespect to Torrey Pines, but if the course needs a complete overhaul in order to satisfy the requirements of testing the very best, then the course's core nature isn't strong enough, in my opinion.

Maybe I'm naive or not yet educated about California golf, but I could not pull up one other course name.  Whether it's obvious or a hidden gem, I figure GCA would be the best forum to spark the debate.

[Paul Carey]

LACC

[Adam Clayman]

Spyglass Hill
The institute

Actually, every course in Ca. that's capable of handling the crowds and tents could hold an open.
This sanctimonious drivel about a courses quality and it's relationship to the usga should have no bearing in identifying the best player. Lowest score will still win. (whatever the venue) The set-up will be one dimensional. Sometimes it rains.

Griffith Park in Los Angeles deserves the re-do an open would command.

[Jed Peters]

In Northern CA:

Stevinson Ranch
Legends at Diablo Grande
Morgan Creek
The Institute
Spyglass Hill
Wente
California Golf Club (Re-Design)
Del Paso Country Club (Probably a Sr. or Women's Open)
Poppy Ridge? (Probably not)

I'm thinking of big long modern tournament courses in our area, and could only come up with the above.

[David Stamm]

LACC

I would agree with Paul. However the USGA has courted the club many times and the club is not interested. I don't blame them. Looking at this from a logistics standpoint, Harding Park may be a possible alternative if the USGA was ever looking for one as opposed to Olympic. Adam, I think Rancho Park would probably fare a better chance than Griffith, but in either case it would never happen. La Purisima is used for qualifying quite a bit, but the location is very remote. There always Rustic green's to give those pro's fits!

[Adam Clayman]

David, My rant as about pre-conceived attitudes towards length and the value of par for a particular course.
The open spaces in Griffith park are much more appealing than the confined area of Cheviot Hills.

[R_Paulis]

There was a rumour about 7 years ago of La Purisima being considered for the US Open. The nearby Pea Soup Anderson's and the "Sideways" motel would need a wee bit expansion to accommodate out-of-towners.

[Kyle Henderson]

In Northern CA:

Stevinson Ranch
Legends at Diablo Grande
Morgan Creek
The Institute
Spyglass Hill
Wente
California Golf Club (Re-Design)
Del Paso Country Club (Probably a Sr. or Women's Open)
Poppy Ridge? (Probably not)

I'm thinking of big long modern tournament courses in our area, and could only come up with the above.

Wente requires carting of players to the 1st and 10th tees. Stevinson is built in wetlands and too far removed from any major Metropolis.

Courses that would work logistically:

Ruby Hill, Monarch Bay (Tony Lema), San Juan Oaks and Roddy Ranch are big courses with room for patrons.

Courses I haven't seen personally but that might fit the bill based on what I've heard:
The Preserve? Bayonette? Cordevalle?

I'd like to see "The Open" go to the Ocean couse at Olympic or the MPCC - Shore. Both play longer than their respective scorecards suggest.

[Matt_Ward]

Rob said, "There was a rumour about 7 years ago of La Purisima being considered for the US Open. The nearby Pea Soup Anderson's and the "Sideways" motel would need a wee bit expansion to accommodate out-of-towners."

Great understatement of all time !

Lompoc, the home of LaPurisima could host even more people if they could use the Federal Peniteniary !

All kidding aside -- LaPurisima is a superb layout that often gets little attention -- why Sandpiper is rated higher in many instances baffles me but it's likely because the course in Goleta is closer on the beaten track and just outside Santa Barbara.

[Nick Church]

Thanks all --- I knew there had to be a few.

I'm partial to the Bayonet noted above, if only because that's where I learned the game.  It was just as much a thrill to play that course again (20 yrs later) last year as it was to finally play PB.

La Purisima looks interesting on its website.

Thanks guys for playing along with the hypothetical --- even if the politics shreds any real hope.

[Bob_Huntley]

In Northern CA:

Stevinson Ranch
Legends at Diablo Grande
Morgan Creek
The Institute
Spyglass Hill
Wente
California Golf Club (Re-Design)
Del Paso Country Club (Probably a Sr. or Women's Open)
Poppy Ridge? (Probably not)

I'm thinking of big long modern tournament courses in our area, and could only come up with the above.

Wente requires carting of players to the 1st and 10th tees. Stevinson is built in wetlands and too far removed from any major Metropolis.

Courses that would work logistically:

Ruby Hill, Monarch Bay (Tony Lema), San Juan Oaks and Roddy Ranch are big courses with room for patrons.

Courses I haven't seen personally but that might fit the bill based on what I've heard:
The Preserve? Bayonette? Cordevalle?

I'd like to see "The Open" go to the Ocean couse at Olympic or the MPCC - Shore. Both play longer than their respective scorecards suggest.

Kyle,

Opening day of the Shore Course at MPCC was an eye opener for me. The fairways are generous in the extreme but the rough back then was absolutely brutal. Forrest Fezler was in the first group to tee off and promptly lost two balls on holes 1 and 2 to record two double bogeys. A short while thereafter the rough went unwatered and one could generally find one's ball.

The California State Amateur was held there in June of this year and if it wasn't for the wind, I am afraid that the length shown by the youngsters would have punished the course most severely.

I have played in our local tourney in aid of The Boys and Girls Club and in 2005 played with Barry Jaeckel. At age 55 plus, and not able to secure a place in the Champions Tour, he  shot a brilliant 65 from the tips. Vijay broke the course record this year with a 64.

Quite frankly, I doubt that the course is long enough to test US Open calber players, especially when you realize just how fast are the fairways

Perhaps Matt Cohn, David Ober and Andrew Biggadyke could add their views here.


Bob

[Kyle Henderson]

In Northern CA:

Stevinson Ranch
Legends at Diablo Grande
Morgan Creek
The Institute
Spyglass Hill
Wente
California Golf Club (Re-Design)
Del Paso Country Club (Probably a Sr. or Women's Open)
Poppy Ridge? (Probably not)

I'm thinking of big long modern tournament courses in our area, and could only come up with the above.

Wente requires carting of players to the 1st and 10th tees. Stevinson is built in wetlands and too far removed from any major Metropolis.

Courses that would work logistically:

Ruby Hill, Monarch Bay (Tony Lema), San Juan Oaks and Roddy Ranch are big courses with room for patrons.

Courses I haven't seen personally but that might fit the bill based on what I've heard:
The Preserve? Bayonette? Cordevalle?

I'd like to see "The Open" go to the Ocean couse at Olympic or the MPCC - Shore. Both play longer than their respective scorecards suggest.

Kyle,

Opening day of the Shore Course at MPCC was an eye opener for me. The fairways are generous in the extreme but the rough back then was absolutely brutal. Forrest Fezler was in the first group to tee off and promptly lost two balls on holes 1 and 2 to record two double bogeys. A short while thereafter the rough went unwatered and one could generally find one's ball.

The California State Amateur was held there in June of this year and if it wasn't for the wind, I am afraid that the length shown by the youngsters would have punished the course most severely.

I have played in our local tourney in aid of The Boys and Girls Club and in 2005 played with Barry Jaeckel. At age 55 plus, and not able to secure a place in the Champions Tour, he  shot a brilliant 65 from the tips. Vijay broke the course record this year with a 64.

Quite frankly, I doubt that the course is long enough to test US Open calber players, especially when you realize just how fast are the fairways

Perhaps Matt Cohn, David Ober and Andrew Biggadyke could add their views here.


Bob

You're probably right. Plus, I'd hate to see them grow up the rough, narrow the fairways and kill your greens trying to toughen the course. It would be better for the USGA to pick some monstrosity that normally requires 300-yard drives into 20 yard-wide necks tha let them come in and ruin your course.

 That being said, I still think it would be fun to see them play the Shore on a windy way with the fairways and greens playing firmly. I think you'd see some very low and some surprisingly high scores, ala Carnoustie.

[Jed Peters]

Kyle,

Opening day of the Shore Course at MPCC was an eye opener for me. The fairways are generous in the extreme but the rough back then was absolutely brutal. Forrest Fezler was in the first group to tee off and promptly lost two balls on holes 1 and 2 to record two double bogeys. A short while thereafter the rough went unwatered and one could generally find one's ball.

The California State Amateur was held there in June of this year and if it wasn't for the wind, I am afraid that the length shown by the youngsters would have punished the course most severely.

I have played in our local tourney in aid of The Boys and Girls Club and in 2005 played with Barry Jaeckel. At age 55 plus, and not able to secure a place in the Champions Tour, he  shot a brilliant 65 from the tips. Vijay broke the course record this year with a 64.

Quite frankly, I doubt that the course is long enough to test US Open calber players, especially when you realize just how fast are the fairways

Perhaps Matt Cohn, David Ober and Andrew Biggadyke could add their views here.


Bob

Bob:

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you.

On a relatively calm day, I shot a fairly straightforward 81 finishing double, bogie my first (and only) time seeing the course.

However, in spite of scoring, I thought that the course (aside from Pacific Dunes) was the most FUN golf course I've ever played. I don't hit a cut AT ALL and even thought the course doesn't set up well for me, I absolutely LOVED your golf course. It was a great golf experience.

Being a student and fan of the game, I especially loved the "classic" nature of the club--it's truly a magnificent place. Oh boy what I wouldn't give to see that place again! And I hear the Dunes is comparable--and according to Tom Huckaby, even better!

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle,

Opening day of the Shore Course at MPCC was an eye opener for me. The fairways are generous in the extreme but the rough back then was absolutely brutal. Forrest Fezler was in the first group to tee off and promptly lost two balls on holes 1 and 2 to record two double bogeys. A short while thereafter the rough went unwatered and one could generally find one's ball.

The California State Amateur was held there in June of this year and if it wasn't for the wind, I am afraid that the length shown by the youngsters would have punished the course most severely.

I have played in our local tourney in aid of The Boys and Girls Club and in 2005 played with Barry Jaeckel. At age 55 plus, and not able to secure a place in the Champions Tour, he  shot a brilliant 65 from the tips. Vijay broke the course record this year with a 64.

Quite frankly, I doubt that the course is long enough to test US Open calber players, especially when you realize just how fast are the fairways

Perhaps Matt Cohn, David Ober and Andrew Biggadyke could add their views here.


Bob

Bob:

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you.

On a relatively calm day, I shot a fairly straightforward 81 finishing double, bogie my first (and only) time seeing the course.

However, in spite of scoring, I thought that the course (aside from Pacific Dunes) was the most FUN golf course I've ever played. I don't hit a cut AT ALL and even thought the course doesn't set up well for me, I absolutely LOVED your golf course. It was a great golf experience.

Being a student and fan of the game, I especially loved the "classic" nature of the club--it's truly a magnificent place. Oh boy what I wouldn't give to see that place again! And I hear the Dunes is comparable--and according to Tom Huckaby, even better!

I only walked the Dunes. It definitely has character and many excellent holes. I believe Bob said he prefers it to the Shore, if only slightly. Personally, I like the width and the sweeping nature  of the holes along with the greater prevalence of the oceanside setting on the Shore course. As you saw for yourself, nothing ever seems to head straight. You have to pick your line carefully, even with the forgiving fairway scale -- a trademark of Strantz, my all-time favorite designer. I only wish I could have hit the ball worth a damn during my visit.

A day on either is a definite treat.

[Michael Robin]

Bob Huntley -

Wow, Barry Jaeckel, that's a name I haven't heard of in a while. He was a legend, as I'm sure you're quite familiar with, at Riviera. Always would see him at the practice fairway between 1 & 2 hitting wedges when in town. He would always have time for a young kid trying to become a good player with a tip that would inspire you to get a lot better. My whole short game is still based on his teachings. He could flat play. If not for a 10 foot putt that stopped on the lip, he would have won the Players Championship over Ray Floyd in the early 80's and had a 10 year exemption. Alas, it was another lesson - Best not to leave it short when it's for all the marbles.

[Michael Robin]

Bob -

Do you prefer The Dunes now or before Rees Jones' remodel of the greens?

[Shane Gurnett]

You could hold the US Open at any course in California that can grow rough to 6 inches high, fairway widths to 20 yards, greens that stimp at 13 and has enough room for the corporate tents.

[Matt_Cohn]

Same story at SFGC as at MPCC - of high enough quality, but unless they just ruined the golf course with a ridiculous setup, the scores would be very low.

Of course, there are other reasons SFGC won't host a US Open anytime soon.

Realistically, Spyglass seems like the next one in line. Wasn't the USGA talking about a Women's Open there?

[Jfaspen]

Isn't PGA West Stadium just what the USGA is looking for?

Other than the weather of course.

[Mike Benham]

In Northern CA:

Stevinson Ranch
Legends at Diablo Grande
Morgan Creek
The Institute
Spyglass Hill
Wente
California Golf Club (Re-Design)
Del Paso Country Club (Probably a Sr. or Women's Open)
Poppy Ridge? (Probably not)

I'm thinking of big long modern tournament courses in our area, and could only come up with the above.

Thanks for the chuckle with the Poppy Ridge suggestion

I dare to say that the current NorCal venues, Olympic and Pebble Beach, aren't long enough to be worthy of a US Open.  

At the last Open at Olympic, in very firm and fast conditions,  the longer players were hitting iron off of many of the par-4s.  What do you think they will hitting in 2012?

Even the modernized Harding Park was not much of a challenge.

It may be proven that Torrey is the most demanding of the California courses as it may actually require them to hit the driver.

[Kalen Braley]

Why not host the open at "The Ranch".  I think Huck said he's never broken 80 on this layout if memory serves me right.

It could work for several reasons:

1) Difficult and narrow fairways.  There would be a record number of guys hitting 3 on the tee, thats what the USGA wants right, resistance to scoring?

2)  Several forced carries from both tee to fairway and fairway to green.  Once again, more lost balls in hazards and the gunch.

3)  Instead of killing them with an overly long course, hammer them with an insanely long and leg-cramp-inducing walk. Sure perhaps this would favor Tiger with his conditioning, but what major open venue doesn't favor him?

[AndrewB]

Quite frankly, I doubt that the course is long enough to test US Open calber players, especially when you realize just how fast are the fairways

I agree.  The USGA would definitely turn one and 16 in to par fives and may even want to do the same for 10 using an up tee.  The wind can make the course play very long, but without it on a lot of holes I was hitting short irons into greens.  And I don't hit the ball very far, especially compared to those guys.

Of course, all this has no bearing on whether it's a wonderful golf course, since it is.

[Kyle Henderson]

Why not host the open at "The Ranch".  I think Huck said he's never broken 80 on this layout if memory serves me right.

It could work for several reasons:

1) Difficult and narrow fairways.  There would be a record number of guys hitting 3 on the tee, thats what the USGA wants right, resistance to scoring?

2)  Several forced carries from both tee to fairway and fairway to green.  Once again, more lost balls in hazards and the gunch.

3)  Instead of killing them with an overly long course, hammer them with an insanely long and leg-cramp-inducing walk. Sure perhaps this would favor Tiger with his conditioning, but what major open venue doesn't favor him?

I realize you're joking, but I'm still compelled to explain a few of the reasons why the USG would never select this course.

#1 It would take players at least six hours to get around the course. John Daly would have a heart attack in the heat of June. Tigers advantage would be even greater, unless he was forced to carry Steve Williams.

#2 The spectators would be standing on ~30% grades along the first 7 holes. Broken ankles and necks would result for certain, unless the gorge was covered filled in with about 6 billion cubic yards of dirt.

#3 The course is sub-7000 yards, even if the fairways are all 10 yards wide and "trenched diagonally from the tee box along the edge of a hillside. Fred Funk would be the only one straight enough off of the tee to reach the short grass, yet he can't carry the ball far enough to do so.

#4 The course has houses everywhere and power lines over the 18th hole. They would have to park spectators 5 miles away and shuttle them up the hill. Also, people would be stopping on the side of the freeway to pull out their binoculars and watch players the front nine.

#5 No practice facilities.

#6 The world would cease to exist, with the existence of god eminently disproven.

[Matt_Cohn]

True. It would be funny, though.

[Kalen Braley]

Kyle,

I was only half kidding I suppose.  But I do very much seriously belive it would be a tough course on the pros, even though it comes in short at under 7000 yards.  The walk and the tightness of the course would make up for it.

Alas you have punched a fatal hole in my case though if there really isn't anywhere for the spectators to stand.  But the winning score would likely be over par...so its got that going for it.  

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