[Patrick_Mucci]

Swilcan Burn encapsulated the green ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Before answering, look at the schematic on page 51 of AWT's
"Gleanings from the Wayside"

If someone could post it, it would be helpful.

[Chris Kane]

Patrick I don't need to see a schematic to think it be substantively WORSE.  

There are more golfers hitting long-irons and three-woods into that green than some might think - a burn around the green would make it too one-dimensional for average player there.

[Jon Wiggett]

I agree with Chris, it would be substantially worse. It would turn the hole from one where the golfer has the option to chose the angle of attack for his game from the tee shot followed by a heroic carry over the burn (so close as you dare) into a one dimensional narrow angle of attack and punishment of all that is not perfect. Said another way a Strategic/heroic hole would become a penal one.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I agree with hole as it is. When playing down wind it is hard to keep it on the green with any club even a wedge to 8 iron.

[Edward Coombes]

Do you mean that going by the diagram you've displayed, that the green is brought forward into the loop formed by the burn?

So this would result in an open front to the green correct?

How is this now penal?

I would see this scenario creating more a risk reward hole.

Go for it with a long iron or wood or lay-up and leave a bump and run or texas wedge.

I hope i've interpreted your layout correctly Pat.

[Jon Wiggett]

Do you mean that going by the diagram you've displayed, that the green is brought forward into the loop formed by the burn?

So this would result in an open front to the green correct?

How is this now penal?

I would see this scenario creating more a risk reward hole.

Go for it with a long iron or wood or lay-up and leave a bump and run or texas wedge.

I hope i've interpreted your layout correctly Pat.

Edward,

I use the term penal because you take a shot over the burn in which the player can decide to play as close or long to the hazard as he chooses (heroic) and replace it with a shot that if not hit correctly is certain to be punished (penal). The chip and run shot to the open green frount would also only be possible if played from the correct angle thus reducing the stratergy of the tee shot. I would go as far as to say with the ground firm and a 30 mph cross wind the hole would become nigh on unplayable for most players, something that the present hole is not.

[paul cowley]

Of course it could be made better......but it would be much better to just leave it alone.

[BCrosby]

What Paul Cowley said.

[Rich Goodale]

Bob

I agree with you (and paul)!  Welcome to the dark side.....

Rich

[BCrosby]

Au contraire, mon ami.

It is you, Richard "all courses change for the better" Farnsworth "over time" Goodale who has finally stepped into the light. We welcome you.

Bob

[wsmorrison]

I agree with Bob who agreed with Rich who agreed with Paul.  The ability to improve does not require that improvements be made.

[Rich Goodale]

Bob, Bob, Bob....

As Chou en-Lai said when asked what he thought about Old Tom Morris' changes to the 1st hole in the mid 1800's:

"It's too early to tell."

Rich, Rich, Rich

[Phil Benedict]

Without seeing the schematic I would have to say no.  You are proposing something that would increase the chances of starting your round by hitting your second shot into a lost ball hazard.  Why make the hole harder?  Almost everyone is nervous on the first hole, particularly on TOC.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Pat,

Quite frankly, I think that the first hole is as good an opening hole of a golf course for which one could wish. Someone mentioned earlier that many is the time that a long iron and fairway wood is required to cross the burn. I am sure that we have some friends here, who have hit a very short iron or even a wedge into the hole on a benign day. However, having played a lot of competitive rounds on the hole over many years I think it's architectural merits are often overlooked.

Bob

[TEPaul]

Patrick Mucci Crane:

We're talking TOC here about which one simply does not ask questions like this. THAT is JUST NOT DONE sir. Better, worse or the same has nothing to do with it--it just is what it is which is perfect. Now, go to your room without supper!

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