I think the Kikuyu grass prevents that on many SoCal courses. But I seem to remember Rustic playing firm & fast tee to green a few times and also the PGA courses at Oak Valley played that way a couple of years ago when I played there. I also seem to remember Meadows Del Mar playing firm, but it was pretty young, I wouldn't doubt that it has been overtaken by Kikuyu by now.

Pete,

what did they do before auto irrigation?

Pete,
With all due respect and understanding , I am not sure it can deliver anywhere.

Of course it can.  Royal Liverpool members loved the way Hoylake played last year.  After the wettest summer on record we finally got a couple of weeks dry weather in the UK at the beginning of September, courses started to change colour and members rejoiced that their courses were beginning to play properly.  

It's about member expectations.  Courses didn't always used to be monochrome green, that's come from improved (sic?) irrigation and the sight of dark green courses being played by the pros.  Members (and golfers generally) can be educated back but it won't be easy.  It's not helped by idiots suggesting that Hoylake was dead, either.

My club does not overseed in the winter. We play off dormant Bermuda in the fairways and greens. Only the Par 3 greens are overseeded since they would overwise be nothing but divots by Spring (we have a lot of winter rounds played).

My initial impression on joining was that not overseeding was a decision made on the basis of playing conditions, specifically avoiding near-unplayable transition periods twice annually during some of the most gorgous golf weather of the year. It turns out that it's more about budget and in the past the club has overseeded at least the greens.

I just hope we don't ever "find" the money to start butchering the course every Spring and Fall. Here in South Carolina those transitions can become horribly protracted if they weather doesn't follow the expected temperature profiles. The downside is that certain landing areas in the fairways are a real mess by late January or early February if we have a mild winter and lots of play. The greens (with paint and perhaps a rolling or two) seem to hold up well until the last couple weeks before the Bermuda re-emerges in April. It's a real pleasure to be playing on healthy, strong greens in late April when the weather turns perfect and most courses are putting on a mixed stubble of poa triv and stressed Bermuda.

Pete,

A friend played SDCC a few weeks ago and said it was quite brown and played really fast.  Have you been out there recently?

Rich,

As Brent points out, it is not required.  From an agronomic perspective, it is probably preferable to not overseed, but I'll let the supers confirm that.  Overseeding is a marketing decision based on trying to attract play from October - March.  As Brent points out, the downside is the transition period in fall and spring.

I think I have seen a trend toward not overseeding private clubs here in the Atlanta area, but maybe Chris Cupit can add what he sees.  The clubs that I have seen that do not overseed have PURE conditions in spring and summer because they can completely clean out all of the weeds during the winter.

To finish my thought, because So Cal has so much play during winter months because of the warm temps, they would HAVE to overseed or they would lose a lot of business.  Similarly, you'll never see brown fairways in Arizona, Florida, or Nevada. As Mike points out, most customers in the US will not accept brown.

Damn, that guy is good...

Barona creek is definetly one of the few courses in So. Cal. that provide firm and fast conditions; but only for certain times of the year. They have many advantages that allow this: an unlimited maintanence budget, irrigation water that is primarily drawn from wells, a unique microclimate in Wild Cat Canyon and the vision of the Tribe to present a golf course that plays well rather than looks good.

That particular picture was taken when the course was preparing to overseed; the bermuda has been scalped and dried, the rye has not yet been sowed. When it does sprout the firm conditions through the green are gone until the bermuda dominates again in the spring.

It is interesting to note that both BC and TPS built their A4 bent greens in 2000. Torrey is now almost completely gone to poa anna, while BC is still pure A4 bent. Of course they have people on the hands and knees digging out the poa that tries to invade the greens and fringes with pen knives. Their warm dry microclimate is much more receptive to growing bent and rejecting poa anna.

Pete,

A friend played SDCC a few weeks ago and said it was quite brown and played really fast.  Have you been out there recently?

Sean,

I haven't been out to SDCC in quite a while; I suspect they are preparing to overseed, but that's just a guess on my part.