Sigh @ #1. I'll give them famous/cool/whatever.

But the hole has no strategy. Come on.

Sigh @ #1. I'll give them famous/cool/whatever.

But the hole has no strategy. Come on.

Ain't gonna be that easy to impress us Ivy.  I think 17 at Sawgrass has tons of micro-strategy.  Do you really believe that every pin placement plays the same?  Do you think that where you stand in the tournament doesn't make a difference?  It may be the most strategic for tour players of any hole on the list.

This list appears to perfectly represents the channel's target market.

Quote from: Roger Tufts on September 05, 2007, 08:42:08 PM

Sigh @ #1. I'll give them famous/cool/whatever.

But the hole has no strategy. Come on.

Ain't gonna be that easy to impress us Ivy.  I think 17 at Sawgrass has tons of micro-strategy.  Do you really believe that every pin placement plays the same?  Do you think that where you stand in the tournament doesn't make a difference?  It may be the most strategic for tour players of any hole on the list.

Yes, I see micro strategy there, and JVB it doesn't have to be strategic to be on the list.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be #1 on their list, and I know they're only considering holes on tour, just saying it wouldn't be on mine.

In terms of drama, JVB you're correct and I agree with that- the Augusta holes especially.

And whats this calling me "Ivy" BS

  #8 at Pebble isn't on the list for example.

John, this was one of the holes I was thinking of as well. Bayhill makes it and this does not?

What about holes at Spyglass, Westchester, Colonial, Harbor Town, Muirfield Village, etc.? How can these courses get shutout from a list such as this?

18 @ KAPALUA PLANTATION.  My pleas for the obvious probably wouldn't work.  18 at Bay Hill, 18 at Sawgrass, and 18 at Doral are great holes, just great holes.  You know why??? They have WATER on them!!!
 

Seriously, though, this list is awful.  It makes me sick to think everyone truly believes that those three holes are good at all, the most cookie-cutter excuse for an 18th hole that exists.  The only hole on tour that's like that that has some substance/uniqueness is the 18th at Harbour Town, and that isn't even on the list.  12 better than 13 at ANGC in any way?? Nah.  The list has some hope with 10 at Riviera, but any quality is immediately squashed with 16 at TPC at Scottsdale, within the grandstands, is no better than any par three at your local muni (unless you live in Farmingdale, NY).

this list shows everything that's wrong with the Golf Channel (which I hardly ever watch except for tournament/post-tournament coverage of PGA tour events).

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 05, 2007, 10:07:20 PM

So, what won the inventors corner?

The Club Caddy (The oversized clothespin)

If Len Bias had that thing on his nose the Celtics would have five more championships.  The Club Caddy stinks.

yawn...

A great golf hole confronts the player with certain options and different strategies and then requires execution.  The 17th at Sawgrass has no options or strategies - it is a short hole that requires a shot that lands softly in a defined area - nothing more, nothing less.  Is it fun and exciting to watch - yes.  But don't call it great architecture.  If I remember this year's Players, most players hit a high and soft 9 iron and hoped that the wind didn't suddenly gust and blow their ball over the green.  Please, you want to compare that to the 12th at ANGC.

I’ve played a few of those holes and all that shows to me is that they are generally voting for drama and excitement rather than the individual quality of the holes. The 18th at Bay Hill, in my opinion, is in no way, shape, or form better than the 10th at Riviera. As has been pointed out, several of the holes there are almost identikits of each other.

I presume this is based on courses that are routinely played as I would certainly have several holes at Oakmont there (give me their 17th over a lot of that list anyday!).

The first two holes (Riviera's 10th and TPC Scottsdale's 16th) don't have water on them, so I'm very surprised they made the list.  17 at Scottsdale is far more interesting than 16.  TPC Scottsdale looks like a pretty interesting course overall, but far from one of the best on tour.

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 05, 2007, 09:05:16 PM

  It may be the most strategic for tour players of any hole on the list.

Quote

More so than the 10th at Riviera? I think not.

David-

If a hole has strategy but none of the touring pros use it, does that make it a strategic hole in the context of the PGA Tour?