[Jeff_Brauer]

Henry E thought it would be an interesting excersise to hear how real gca's might have corrected a mistake if given a chance, and why they happened.

So, who can think of a mulligan they would want to take?

I can think of several, but here are a few to start:

General Concept: Early in my career, working too strictly to a client's too low budget.  In the end, your work gets evaluated no matter what the problems at the time, and those average jobs can haunt for a while

Individual Hole:  Probably every course has at least one, even the good ones.

At the Quarry, after we discovered peat bogs throughout the fw, we had to remove it, put down fabric and haul in fill.  That was okay, but the contractor asked (since this delayed construction of that hole until near the end) if he could lower the green en masse to reduce hauling fill over finished work.  I agreed, but after it was built, I realized that not only should it not have been lowered, but it should have also been raised two feet to put it in relation to the fill added to the fw.  As a result, the green is seen only barely from the tee, and I feel it would be more attractive if higher.

At the Wilderness, I found out dynamite was not a precision grading tool.  The tenth was supposed to be a double fw.  When solid rock was discovered (just about ten feet left of where I directed a test hole earlier!) we had to blast.  It was supposed to be a double fw hole, but the blasting didn't go far enough and the owner didn't want to pay for more in that area, figuring one blow was enough......

In the morning, I will try to come up with some strategic blunders (or at least misgivings) I have had, but that is all for now.

[James Bennett]

Jeff

Good, albeit 'courageous' thread.  A dose of reality is contained in your first post.

can you include any 'happenstance' events, where an even better outcome  than planned occurred because of an unexpected reason (the rock at Wilderness did the opposite)?

James B

[Jeff_Brauer]

James,

Oh, there are a million of those examples. I think Paul Cowley discussed that in a recent thread, but those examples would be a good addition to this thread, as well.

The problem with this thread is that most players haven't seen the courses in question, and the "what if" scenario is hard to describe even if they had.  For both good and bad happenstance, I don't think the result is a black and white "good to bad" or "bad to good" situation.  Its just little things that I know made the hole better/worse or different than I had intended.

I hope that makes sense.

[Clyde Johnston]

Jeff:

I think my only misgivings come in the form of taking on work where the owner wanted to build his own golf course, or at least control who performed what work, and controlled the budget. Most turned out OK but could have been a lot better - one turned out better than I expected.

Nothing else comes to mind at the moment but I'll give it more thought as I'm traveling today.

[Mike_Young]

I think everyone has had a few and will have more but heres some that come to mind....



Budgets....working on low budget when getting started and owner hires a supt from a high budget club (was an asst there) and instead of trying to work with a low budget proceeds to scare the hell out of an owner.....hirng a supt from a hign budget club that has never had to improvise is not always a good thing...
Working on a job where the low bid is a contractor that has worked for several signatures and proceeds to try and take control of owner by telling him what "signature" would have done in this situation and that situation.....now would tell such builder to go jump...at the time you can't....but because I did such the course had improvements made by another "signature" a few years later....


Will come up with more later....

[Tom_Doak]

I have wanted a mulligan a few times, in different areas.  However, I've also learned to be careful what I say about them, as my clients tend to listen too much, so if I'm not careful I will be forced to try and correct my mistake, and possibly make it worse.  

In several circumstances I've tried to make a particular hole difficult, and gone too far, realizing later that if I'd just toned it down a bit then the rest of the course would shine through.

Probably the worst single mistake I've made was to build a dogleg par-5 where you could take a short-cut into another fairway.  I realized before we went to construction that it was a problem, and wanted to correct it; but the client liked the original solution because it resulted in a longer course, so he asked me to keep it as we'd planned.  But it's turned out to be a problem after all, and now they would have to relocate a green to fix it.

[Jeff_Brauer]

On the 'strategic" side more can appreciate here, the 9th at Cowboys contains a double fw.  Problem is that the green side bunker that presumably would cause you to go to the right fw should come across the green front just a little further to force the decision.  Its a case where just a few feet would make a big difference.

[Dan Kelly]

At the Quarry, after we discovered peat bogs throughout the fw, we had to remove it, put down fabric and haul in fill.  That was okay, but the contractor asked (since this delayed construction of that hole until near the end) if he could lower the green en masse to reduce hauling fill over finished work.  I agreed, but after it was built, I realized that not only should it not have been lowered, but it should have also been raised two feet to put it in relation to the fill added to the fw.  As a result, the green is seen only barely from the tee, and I feel it would be more attractive if higher.

Which hole?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dan,

My bad. Hole 12.

[henrye]

I have wanted a mulligan a few times, in different areas.  However, I've also learned to be careful what I say about them, as my clients tend to listen too much, so if I'm not careful I will be forced to try and correct my mistake, and possibly make it worse.  

In several circumstances I've tried to make a particular hole difficult, and gone too far, realizing later that if I'd just toned it down a bit then the rest of the course would shine through.

Probably the worst single mistake I've made was to build a dogleg par-5 where you could take a short-cut into another fairway.  I realized before we went to construction that it was a problem, and wanted to correct it; but the client liked the original solution because it resulted in a longer course, so he asked me to keep it as we'd planned.  But it's turned out to be a problem after all, and now they would have to relocate a green to fix it.

Interesting.  We have the same issue at my home course, but simply made the other fairway out of bounds.  The difference may be that hitting onto the other fairway is no simple task.  The OB decission was made due to it being a blind shot into the other fairway and someone might be there.  In the end, the dogleg par 5 is a favourite of many.  Its a short 500 yard par 5 (from the tips), sharp dogleg and the green can often be challenged in two shots by the better players.  Also plays as the 1 handicap hole - eagle chance for the scratch golfer - par for the regular gang.

[J_McKenzie]

We (Love Golf Design) not only wanted a mulligan, we paid to get one.  The 18th green at Barefoot was originally designed and constructed low along the edge of a lake, but it was requested that the green be raised to ensure visibility from the clubhouse.  This was done, but once Davis saw it grassed from the fairway, he felt it did not fit with the rest of the course and was adamant about returning it to its original location.  So adamant, in fact, that we took it out of our fee to have it rebuilt as originally conceived.

Ironically, the green is visible from the clubhouse.

John

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