[Jason Blasberg]

Unfortunately I didn't pull my camera out until the 4th hole.  Erin Hills is a modern great, IMO, because it combines natural beauty, grand scale but a sense of connectedness, great variety in terrain, has significant variety in green undulation and orientation and provides the player with enough width to play aggressively toward most greens and get themselves in trouble!

Here’s the view from the 4th tee, this tee shot is entirely soothing to my eye:






This is the view of 5 fairway from 4 tee:



4th hole fairway bunkering and view of green site in natural horseshoe like collection area (kettle hole as they say in the yardage book, I don’t think we have “kettle holes on Long Island?):



The natural ridge line on the side of 4 green is seen here:





Trench bunkering 50 yards short of 4 green:




A look ahead while walking from the 4th green to the 5th tee:



Here’s a look back toward 4 green:



Here’s the 5th tee shot, fairway mowing patterns clearly need to be expanded:





Here’s a view of the clubhouse and Holy Hill in the background from the 5th tee.



The approach on 5:

[David Kelly]

Nice pics. I think the course would look especially cool when the tall grasses turn brown and provide a nice contrast to the green areas of the course.

I noticed the hapless caddy running to try to keep up with the golfers in the carts.

[Jason Blasberg]

David:

We road too but I always ride with L. because of her back issues.  A forecaddie is a must IMO because of all the blind shots.  I did walk plenty and our third walked with his own walking caddie and there are a few long walks between holes but its definitely walkable.  If you walked it regularly you'd also be in incredible shape.  You must go if you haven't been.  It reminds me of Prairie Dunes in many places and, much like PD, pictures don't do the property justice.

Jason

[Jason Blasberg]

Now, remember, folks, this is the course that Paul Richards said was too tight!!

 

It's plenty wide, although the primary rough was pretty thick because of all the rain so there was still a premium placed on hitting the fairway.  

Notably, everyone complains about how hard 2 green is to hold and when our playing partner stuck a wedge to 15 feet our caddie said "that's the first ball I've ever seen hold this green" so I said, "just wait you're about to see your second" and alas from the fescue I stuck a 52 degree wedge to 12 feet.  It just goes to show you that 2 green is very playable when the green is not hard as a rock so perhaps they have to irrigate it more often than the others.  I don't see a major issue with that.

[Jason Blasberg]

Shivas:

There are maitainence issues at EH that must be addressed.  For one there are drainage problems around the 1st tee and the course is not even close to firm and fast.  From what I understand they are letting the place grow in and that makes sense to me.  I just hope that the fairways are cut wider than they are now and get firm and fast.  If so, it will be a roller coaster ride from Heaven and we'll be cursing seemingly good drives that scurry off into the primary rough even when fairways are W I D E!!  

[David Kelly]

David:
If you walked it regularly you'd also be in incredible shape.  You must go if you haven't been.

You of course meant EVEN MORE incredible shape I am sure.

[SPDB]

Jason:

On #5, do you mean to say that the mowing patterns need to be expanded on the left? If so, wouldn't that obsolete the centerline bunker allowing people to play to a fairly wide target away from the bunker? How far out is that bunker? As it stands now, its not clear from the picture why you would challenge it on the right.

[Jason Blasberg]

I challenged that bunker and you have to hit it solidly.  I do think the rough lines should be moved closer to the fescue lines.  If you play away from the bunker and gamble left you are closer to the real heavy stuff and will have to play your approach over the left greenside bunker.

[Jeff Doerr]

I love the look of #4! It looks wide enough out there with a moderate carry. I like that the forward tees eliminate the carry. I do fear for the pace of play if some golfers insist on playing the back tees. There could be a lot of LBs on the day.

[Adam Clayman]

If you know of any good golfing women, play in all the scrambles you can at  this course.

Is that really 143 yard par 4?

[Michael Dugger]

Best looking Hurdzan/Fry I've seen pictures of.

really looking forward to hearing more about Erin Hills

Shiv, didn't you grab an eagle here?
 

[Dan Moore]

Thanks for the photos.  I'm looking forward to the rest.  

Amazing how much more grown in it looks compared to last August.  Its almost too green now but it has been a little wet in the MW in recent days.  

[Tom_Doak]

"I do think the rough lines should be moved closer to the fescue lines."

Shivas:  I understood what you were trying to say, but you need to get your terminology correct.  At Erin Hills the fairways and the primary rough are actually fescue, while the long native grasses you referred to as the "fescue" is mostly NOT fescue but a variety of prairie grasses that have not been disturbed by construction.

The returfed areas are quite wide in most spots, as you say, but I still think they need to cut down and reseed more of the native areas, particularly those between the tee and the fairway.  When I saw it, at least, the native grasses were waist high and it would have been pretty much impossible to find a ball in them, even for a ball hawk like myself.  You can't be having that at a U.S. Open, and it doesn't work too well for public golf either.  It was the thing that bothered me most about the course, because if they are going to sell it as being in the traditional spirit of Scottish golf you cannot be taking lateral hazard drops from the hay -- our Scots friends would cringe at the thought.

[Phil McDade]

Jason:

On the diagram, the fairway bunker looks like it's built into an area where the fairway meets the rough and the fescue. Yet your pictures show it being a pretty classic centerline fairway bunker. Is their any advantage going right of the bunker, and trying to squeeze it into the narrow opening there? You'd seem to have both a more open approach to the green, plus reduced yardage because it looks like a downhill approach shot to what appears to be a pretty receptive green. Or is attempting that drive not wise? If it plays 417 from the tips, that's a 3-wood/iron for most pros.....

[Phil McDade]

"I do think the rough lines should be moved closer to the fescue lines."

Shivas:  I understood what you were trying to say, but you need to get your terminology correct.  At Erin Hills the fairways and the primary rough are actually fescue, while the long native grasses you referred to as the "fescue" is mostly NOT fescue but a variety of prairie grasses that have not been disturbed by construction.

The returfed areas are quite wide in most spots, as you say, but I still think they need to cut down and reseed more of the native areas, particularly those between the tee and the fairway.  When I saw it, at least, the native grasses were waist high and it would have been pretty much impossible to find a ball in them, even for a ball hawk like myself.  You can't be having that at a U.S. Open, and it doesn't work too well for public golf either.  It was the thing that bothered me most about the course, because if they are going to sell it as being in the traditional spirit of Scottish golf you cannot be taking lateral hazard drops from the hay -- our Scots friends would cringe at the thought.

Tom:

Um, I lost quite a few balls in fescue/native grass/whatever when I played in Scotland, and while I'm admittedly a bad golfer, the fairways at Erin Hills appear to have more width than some of the links I played over on the old sod (Machrihanish for sure, but also places like Peterhead and Fraserburgh -- all pretty traditional links courses with some pretty heavy hay not that far from the fairway. (Caveat -- I haven't played Erin Hills, so just basing my jugement off pictures. But I've heard reports from several golfers that losing balls in the hay at even a revered place like the Honourable Company is not all that uncommon.)

[Jerry Kluger]

So are the heavy grasses around the bunkers the natural grasses or the fescue - how does that affect the watering patterns - are those grasses around the bunkers so thick that you often have no play other than hacking at it with a sand wedge - if the course were to play firm and fast and you tried to use the ground game would you be worse off if your ball rolled into the think grass around a bunker as opposed to flying it into the sand?

[Jim Franklin]

If you know of any good golfing women, play in all the scrambles you can at  this course.

Is that really 143 yard par 4?

Adam, it is a 258 yard par 4. I think it is 143 to reach the bunker on the right.

[RJ_Daley]

If so, it will be a roller coaster ride from Heaven and we'll be cursing seemingly good drives that scurry off into the primary rough even when fairways are W I D E!!

Jason, this statement puzzles me.  I've always been in the 'wider is better' camp.  But, I believe the width should be on a firm and fast links course to lead to optionable and varietal approach decisions.  From the looks of the waist high rough, I see no joy in balls running on the fimr and fast rollercoaster ride, only to lead to impossible rough.  

Is it possible that the intermediate rough width is the key?  Anotherwords, if they maintain a wider than usual intermediate fescue rough of about 10-15 yards on either side, at about 2.5 inches, would that be a good maintenance meld, do you think?

[Jason Blasberg]

If you know of any good golfing women, play in all the scrambles you can at  this course.

Is that really 143 yard par 4?

Adam:

That's yardage to the bunker from the ladies tees.

[Jason Blasberg]

If so, it will be a roller coaster ride from Heaven and we'll be cursing seemingly good drives that scurry off into the primary rough even when fairways are W I D E!!

Jason, this statement puzzles me.  I've always been in the 'wider is better' camp.  But, I believe the width should be on a firm and fast links course to lead to optionable and varietal approach decisions.  From the looks of the waist high rough, I see no joy in balls running on the fimr and fast rollercoaster ride, only to lead to impossible rough.  

Is it possible that the intermediate rough width is the key?  Anotherwords, if they maintain a wider than usual intermediate fescue rough of about 10-15 yards on either side, at about 2.5 inches, would that be a good maintenance meld, do you think?

RJ:

The critical point I was making is "seemingly good drives."  Wide doesn't mean free pass so if the fairway tilts right to left a cut played down the center may end up perfect while a draw played down the same line may "scurry into the rough."  

I agree with you that with firm and fast you need room for the primary rough to do its work and prevent everything from running into the fescue.  BTW, a lot of the fescue at EH is outside the playing corridors on hillsides, hillocks, etc.  So if you keep in the intended field of play the fescue should not be a big deal.  There are notable excepts so as the forced carries off the tee and some risk reward carries such as the second down the inside line on the par 5 18th and the second to the par 5 14th.

[Jason Blasberg]

One fundamental criticism I have about EH is the disparity of yardages from available tees.  The back tees are a little over 7,100 yards and the next set of tees are right around 6,500.  There needs to be a mixed set at about 6,800 or so.  If it's really firm, 7,100 should be no problem if you normally hit it 250 off the tee but when it's wet, like it was last week, it plays too long for most.  

The same criticism for the ladies tees.  The most forward were at about 4,500 and the next were either 5200 or 5400.

Both me and L. looked at the card and said, well the tees we would like to play are too short but the next set is more than I want to deal with in wet conditions.

Two mixed sets of tees would easily solve this issue.

[Jason Blasberg]

The approach on 5:

Here's an example of the mowing patterns needing expansion.  A ball landing short of the greenside bunker should not stop short in the rough but should roll out into the bunker.  

[Brad Tufts]

I bet there are kettle holes on Long Island, as they are all over Cape Cod.

A kettle hole is formed when a huge ice block calves (falls off) a receding glacier and dents the underlying land.  The huge ice block eventually melts, leaving a large hole.  The hole often looks like sinkhole, but without the slide areas and general circular symmetry of the sides.

When checking my definition, I came across a few pics of a glacial "kame," and the pics almost look like links...

Check it out at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kame

[Dan Moore]

Jason,

At this rate we won't finish 18 before dark.  

I can't wait to see the green at "The Dell."  

[Jason Blasberg]

Dan, I hope to post pics and thoughts on 6 and 7  (the Dell) tonight.  

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