[Brent Hutto]

When I arrive at Manchester for Buda V I'm going to spend a couple days in Southport for some links golf before heading inland. I'll get there noonish on Sunday and need to leave late afternoon on Tuesday for Leeds and the main event. The usual suspects in Southport, from north to south:

Hesketh
Royal Birkdale
Southport and Ainsdale
Hillside
Formby

So I've got to decide two things. Do I spend a small fortune at Royal Birkdale and experience my first Open venue? And how to choose among the other courses?

Formby seems to be the consensus favorite based on comments in the forum archive. I'm not clear on just how much of an odd duck it is amongs courses built on true linksland, having dense groups of large trees. Does it still feel like playing links golf or is it a sort of sui generis experience? Mark Rowlinson has expressed a preference for Hillside and a lack of preference for S&A, is that opinion shared widely?

For context, the only links courses I've played are Littlestone and Deal although I've also walked round Princes and Royal St. George's. So when I say "links golf" I'm picturing the sort of day-at-the-beach feel of Littlestone. But I also see the attraction of playing among the enormous dunes at Sandwich even though I didn't get to play there myself. It's the wind and the turf and the sense of being on a vast blanket of grass and sand that give the "links character" to a course in my opinion. So how to the Southport courses rank in terms of that sort of "character"?

Of course the Birkdale question really becomes a question of what it's worth to me, the green fee is about GBP100 higher than a round at one of the other courses. I'll just have to decide for myself if I'm capable of deriving $300+ worth of enjoyment from once around a famous course. I would however welcome any comments about the suitability of the course for a short-hitting bogey golfer. By that I mean specifically how well it accomodates tacking around the course basically playing for bogey without having the length to take on longish carries directly.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Brent, I understand your dilemma.  Skipping Birkdale for the other courses makes sense.  They are wonderul tests of golf.  On the other hand,  my guess is that you will feel that you missed something by not playing RB.  When you get a chance to play a venerable old course do it.  Just dig deep.  I have played most of the Open venues and wouldn't miss the experience.  Now when I go to Britain I play the lesser known courses and do not feel like I am missing anything.

[Brent Hutto]

Tommy,

I'm leaning in that direction. Last summer I watched the Amateur at Sandwich. While I was there I played at Deal and Littlestone so not getting to play Royal St. George's didn't exactly spoil the trip but it's something I've thought about often since returning home.

It would seem a pity to spend two or three days a couple of miles from Birkdale and skip it for no other reason that price. Heck, I paid almost that much to play Spyglass Hill and haven't regretted a penny of it since.

A day at Formby then a round at Birkdale would be an awful nice jump-start to my week over in Yorkshire.

[Rich Goodale]

Brent

I've only played Birkdale and Hesketh and would highly reccommend either, even though there is a difference in both the price and the experience.

Both will be enjoyable, and if one were to assign some sort of cold mathematical formula in terms of the log of $$$/Doak Scale Points (or something of that ilk) Hesketh will always win.  However.......

Birkdale is something special, even though it doesn't have the porn-quirk factor most beloved of most of us GCAers.  It is a small step or two more intersting, architecturally and in terms of the playing experience, than the top courses above you have mentioned you have played.  IMHO, of course.

Also, it is the Open venue for 2008.  I think you would kick yourself when you watch it on the telly next year if you missed the chance to play it this September.

As Tommy implies, the Heskeths of the world can be taken at your leisure.  The Birkdales, on the other hand, should be seized when made available to you.

Rich

[Brent Hutto]

Also, it is the Open venue for 2008.  I think you would kick yourself when you watch it on the telly next year if you missed the chance to play it this September.

Yikes, somehow I missed that fact. Now that you mention it I recall a discussion somewhere of revamping Birkdale's seventeenth green for "the next Open". That's next year.

Point taken. Dilemma solved.

I'm also becoming somewhat enamoured of the Formby Dormy House idea. So maybe that'll be my combination, two or three rounds at Formby and a splurge round on Birkdale. Maybe they'll let me play the red tees and I'll break 100  

[michael j fay]

Brent:

You really cannot go wrong with any of the courses you entioned. Given my druthers I would play Birkdale and Southport and Ainsdale.

Birkdale for obvious reasons, S&A because you will love the course and have one hell of a good time. There was a good reason why the Ryder Cup was played at S&A twice in the '30's.

Have a great time.

[Jason Mandel]

Brent,

Funny story about Southport and Southport &Ainesdale.  About 6 years ago I was living in Florence for the summer studying.  A friend of mine and his dad were over in England/Scotland for a golf trip and to attend the Open at Lytham.  I decided to fly up to meet them.

After walking Lytham for two days and following David Duval to his 1st and only major, my friend and his dad were scheduled to play S&A on Monday.  I figured I would rent some or borrow some clubs from the pro and play myself with them.

Anyway, we showed up at S&A monday morning and the place was relatively empty.  the caddy they had asked for was nowhere in sight and the golf shop was empty.  Turns out the pro had quit that weekend and he empties the entire shop !  I offered to caddy for my friend and his dad instead.  I really enjoyed the experience as well as the golf course.

If I recall Birkdale is literally right down the street from S&A so if poss you should try and play both.  

Southport is a neat little town and seemed like it would be a lot of fun during the summer.

Jason

[Brent Hutto]

Anyway, we showed up at S&A monday morning and the place was relatively empty.  the caddy they had asked for was nowhere in sight and the golf shop was empty.  Turns out the pro had quit that weekend and he empties the entire shop !  I offered to caddy for my friend and his dad instead.  I really enjoyed the experience as well as the golf course.

I'm waiting for Shivas to jump in and preach on the evils of the double-bagging caddie.

Neat story. And yes, S&A's and Birkdale's clubhouses are maybe a mile apart at most. If I decide on the dormy house at Formby it will be fun playing there. If instead I opt for the B&B I've located in Southport I'll probably do S&A or Hillside, each of which is on basically the same stretch of land as Royal Birkdale. Kind of like a three-course version of Princes and Royal St. George's.

[Brent Hutto]

...S&A because you will love the course and have one hell of a good time. There was a good reason why the Ryder Cup was played at S&A twice in the '30's.

I figure you gotta love a course where both the first and tenth holes are Par 3's.

[Bob_Huntley]

Brent,

I would suggest Birkdale and Formby. If you feel cheated at the end of the day I owe you a round at MPCC.

Bob

[Brent Hutto]

Bob,

I'm going to check on the Dormy House at Formby. I'm very taken with the idea of going straight there from the airport, walk around a bit and maybe chip and putt on their practice green, sleep upstairs and be out on the links first thing the next morning.

Then the day after that have a good honest go at Birkdale. All in all, sounds almost as fine as a day on the Monterey coast.

[Ed Tilley]

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=24317;start=msg448774#msg448774

Brent,

I don't know if you've already seen the above but you won't regret Formby. I had a colleague at work who has stayed at the Formby dormy house every year for the past 20 years and plans to keep going back as long as his body allows.

Ed

[Brent Hutto]

Ah Ed, the "Lovely Jubbly" guy!

I had seen the pictures a while back but thanks for the link. It's always hard to tell from photos but does the course have a fairly open feel to it?

With the pines and all it certainly isn't an Old Course vibe but your mention of Surrey brings to mind Walton Heath which I found to be a very comfortable blend of wide-open space and "definition" (to use an unfortunately loaded word around here). I'm imagining Formby as sort of a Walton Heath look but with a bit of salt tang in the air. If so, it must be like heaven sure enough.

[Ed Tilley]

The course does have a very expansive feel. The drive from the elevated 9th tee is just begging you to open your shoulders. Only the stretch from 6-8 are enclosed in the pine trees.

It's quite a difficult course to categorise. It's a real mix of links / heathland with some pines thrown in but whatever it is it's absolutely first class. A few people on our trip complained about the cost prior to the round - nobody was complaining afterwards.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I never undersrand why Birdale does not get the respect it deserves, it is in my top 5 course of all time, with only the Old course ahaed of it from the other Open rota courses.

I love the simplicity of the course and the routing is superb, with the marvelous 12th one of my all time favourite par 3's anywhere.

Hillside is well worth the visit as is Formby...they would be my 3 choices and this coming from somebody who has played all those mentioned about 10 or 20 times...but you really cannot go wrong with any of them, the area is really very very rich in talent.

[Tom Huckaby]

Brent - not to pile onto a decision already made, but my example is this:  I've been to that area of England exactly once in my life.  I've played one golf course:  Royal Birkdale.

I have absolutely zero regrets.

And I too have wondered why Birkdale gets little respect.. I found it to be very tough and very fun, something I'd not say for many courses....

TH

[Tommy Williamsen]

I must have my head in the sand.  I din't realize that RB got little respect.  From whom?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tommy - at times the course has been discussed in here, and my recollection is also that reviews have been mixed.  I don't recall the exact complaints.

[Brent Hutto]

Tommy - at times the course has been discussed in here, and my recollection is also that reviews have been mixed.  I don't recall the exact complaints.

From what I've read recently on the forum archives:

1) The fairways have too little undulation.

2) Too "fair" for a great links course.

3) Too many holes playing through the dunes in the same way, leading to a certain sameness.

Which leads me to the provisional conclusion that Royal Birkdale is the sort of Open Rota course that would be loved by someone who doesn't like Royal St. George's and perhaps vice versa.

Given that Sandwich is the greatest of the Open courses in my regard, it will be interesting to see if that assessment holds up.

[Brent Hutto]

I received my confirmation from Royal Birkdale today (11.10am on Monday, September 17) and in the information it listed was a line specifying that no caddies were requested. That got me thinking about it and maybe I ought to see if a caddie is available.

With just one round to play at a course, having never seen the course before, is this the sort of course where having someone to point out aiming lines off the tee or unseen bunkers might be important? I don't mind toting my own bag and am not big on having someone read putts but it would be nice to play the holes the way they're intended even if it's not obvious.

By reputation, it's supposed to be a "fair" links course so maybe that means everything is laid out in front of you...

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Brent,  Birkdale is the most obvious of the Open courses.  There is nothing hidden.  You might find the drive lines on the 5th, 9th and 16th slightly deceptive as you stand on the tee, but the course planner guide should tell you where you run out of fairway. There are deceptive putts only on the 2nd and 11th.  So you don't need a caddie, but some poor child will starve because his daddy hasn't got any work that day....  Probably the caddie will smoke as many cigarettes and down as many pints that evening whether he has work or not.  Have a great day!

[Bill_McBride]

I'm also becoming somewhat enamoured of the Formby Dormy House idea. So maybe that'll be my combination, two or three rounds at Formby and a splurge round on Birkdale.

I've only stayed in a dormy house once but it was a terrific experience (Beau Desert after the 2006 Buda Cup).  It's really cool to wake up already at the club, wander over for a good breakfast and then hit the course.  I would highly recommend that any time possible.

[Brent Hutto]

Mark,

Thanks for the confirmation. I know if I were playing, for instance, the Old Course or Royal St. George's never having seen the course before I'd appreciate some sort of assistance but Birkdale is a different beast. I'll be playing by myself so I may even keep a scorecard! Then we'll see how "fair" the old girl can be. The caddies will manage without me I'm sure.

Bill,

I'm very much looking forward to the experience for just the reasons you mention. On Sunday I'll be able to go straight there from the airport, drop my stuff off and shower and change and then play golf until I'm ready to call it a day. Then on Tuesday morning, breakfast is at 8.00am and I'm teeing off just after 9.00 which is exactly how I play at home except without the half-hour drive to get there.

[Philip Spogard]

I went there 10 months ago and played/visited all the courses.

I will say Formby is absolutely a must! From hole 3 untill hole 9/10 each hole just gets better and better - and the 3rd hole is great! The landscape keeps changing and is just so interesting and inspiring. It was one of the big 'surprises' I have had visiting a golf course I did not know much about. You will not be disappointed!

Hesketh is not worth a visit in my opinion. Very few good holes and a stretch of pretty bad ones. Royal Birkdale is good but perhaps just better to walk around?

Instead play S&A or Hillside.

[Brent Hutto]

Philip,

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going ahead and play Royal Birkdale, the deciding factor was that they're playing the Open there next year and I've never played a course and then been able to watch the pros play it on TV. That will be pretty neat.

I'll get to play two days at Formby (Sunday/Tuesday) and can probably get in three rounds if I'm feeling energetic. Looking forward to it very much. I always enjoy seeing a course more than once because there are usually so many things I didn't notice the first time around, at least for interesting courses.

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