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mike_malone

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"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« on: April 08, 2007, 05:50:33 PM »
"Steady" means unspectacular to me. Retief does some amazing things, particularly with the putter in big events.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 05:55:45 PM by michael_malone »
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tlavin

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 06:19:08 PM »
Steady under trying conditions strikes me as a compliment, maybe not all that effusive a compliment, but then again Goosen has a sort of underwhelming comportment about himself.
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2007, 09:02:36 PM »
He actually missed a bunch of putts today and could have walked away with it today.  Never mind his 76-76 first two rounds.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2007, 09:07:24 PM »
As he said in his post round interview.

"I couldn't buy a putt on the back 9".  This from the guy who put on the most amazing putting display I've ever seen at shinney during the U.S. Open
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John Kavanaugh

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2007, 09:10:17 PM »
Goosen thought +3 would win and played for that score...It was a gross miscalculation.  The guys on the radio thought the same thing even when old men were making birdies and shooting under par.
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RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2007, 09:18:49 PM »
I was really enjoying his play today. Kind of wished he had won.
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Brent Hutto

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2007, 09:28:29 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on April 08, 2007, 09:10:17 PM
Goosen thought +3 would win and played for that score...It was a gross miscalculation.

In the interview after the round he actually said +2 was the number he thought would suffice, I never heard him mention +3 at any point.

If his prediction had been correct, I guess even after the bogey on twelve he figured he could lay up and birdie either thirteen or fifteen plus sixteen was a birdie pin as well. But I think that playing to a number is perhaps overthinking the matter somewhat.

I had picked Goosen to win back on Thursday...I always pick him in the three US majors unless I'm allowed to choose Tiger. I just like the way he putts and the way he really crushes the ball with his irons.
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Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2007, 09:36:05 PM »
He's not a very good driver, at least not this week. The iron on 13 showed a lack of confidence off the tee and the wild tee shot on 15 really hurt him. Still, the missed birdie on 9 and the 3-putt on 12 were pretty devastating.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2007, 10:37:40 PM »
I believe that he is the only person to ever hit an iron off the 13th in the history of the Masters. 3 putt on 12, he must have been so mad that he felt he needed to hit an iron. You deserve to lose if you are going to hit an iron off a par 5 that gave up 8 eagles in the day. Just pathetic.
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Michael Christensen

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2007, 10:40:44 PM »
regarding the iron off of 13....Retief talked about that in his press conference.....it is a hybrid/rescue club/one iron, and he said he hits it far....he said he just got the wrong line, he was going for the corner and with firm and fast he would have had 3 iron in to the green

seems to me he thought out this plan of attack, just didn't execute
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2007, 10:47:11 PM »
On the telecast, they thought it might be due to his demons from putting it in the drink last year during round 4 to kill his chances.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 05:10:59 PM »
Quote from: Michael Christensen on April 08, 2007, 10:40:44 PM
regarding the iron off of 13....Retief talked about that in his press conference.....it is a hybrid/rescue club/one iron, and he said he hits it far....he said he just got the wrong line, he was going for the corner and with firm and fast he would have had 3 iron in to the green

seems to me he thought out this plan of attack, just didn't execute

Not buying that one in any way. 510? Let's pretend he hits his 1-iron hybrid or whatever 270. With my math that leaves him 240 into the 13th green. That is the worst plan I have ever heard for playing that hole. The media or people in general just make me laugh. Chip Beck is made to be a made to be a bad guy for laying up on 15 and now Goosen pulls one of the dumbest and most inexplicable decisions in the history of sports and he gets a free pass?
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CHrisB

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 05:28:59 PM »
Quote from: Glenn Spencer on April 09, 2007, 05:10:59 PM
Chip Beck is made to be a made to be a bad guy for laying up on 15 and now Goosen pulls one of the dumbest and most inexplicable decisions in the history of sports and he gets a free pass?

Why stop at sports? How about calling Goosen's decision on #13 was one of the worst decisions in the history of Georgia? or the history of outdoor activities? or the history of mankind? ;)

I just don't see the idiocy of the tee shot decision. He was clearly uncomfortable with the shot and just the previous day tried to hook a 3-wood around the corner and hit a weak block cut just like he did Sunday.

He probably felt like he couldn't win the tournament on the 13th tee, but that he could lose it. He was just picking his spots. Chip Beck was in a different situation--he pretty much had to pick up a shot on Langer right there on the 15th. He thought he could do it by laying up, while his caddy (and many others who try to climb inside these guys' heads) thought otherwise.

Both players (and Mickelson on #18 at Winged Foot for that matter) were being true to themselves and I won't question them for that. And unless someone has been in the same situation (and no one in this DG has), then I'll go with the word of the player every time.
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Michael Christensen

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 05:51:05 PM »
I'm sure Mr Spencer would have ripped driver around the corner and left himself 190 in........I guess it is just that easy....as we all know by now, bending the current ball is just sooooooooo easy

I take Goosen's explanation at face value...he has no reason to lie
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Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 06:16:06 PM »
Glenn,

If he takes the inside line, it is surely shorter than that, as with any dogleg.
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Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2007, 06:17:34 PM »
Retief has an awful lot of game.  There's a reason he was part of the Big 5 (which disintegrated after Tiger found his game again).  

I was stunned when he didn't hit driver, or at least 3 wood, on #13.  I'm a fan of Goosen's so I know that he's prone to hook his driver, but still--there's a decent chance that, even if you miss the drive, you can still punch out and put yourself in position for a 4.  Obviously, he was very uncomfortable with the shot and didn't want to lose the tournament on one swing.  Playing away from his driver is not the sort of thinking that captures glory, but the man knows his game.  

He hasn't fallen in my estimation.  He calculated +2 would win the tournament (actually pretty close), played for that number and just came up a little short.  He hit a couple of putts that nearly went in and got unlucky with his tee shot on 16.  His weekend score of -5 was pretty impressive.  
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Ken_Cotner

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2007, 06:38:54 PM »
Quote from: Glenn Spencer on April 08, 2007, 10:37:40 PM
I believe that he is the only person to ever hit an iron off the 13th in the history of the Masters. 3 putt on 12, he must have been so mad that he felt he needed to hit an iron. You deserve to lose if you are going to hit an iron off a par 5 that gave up 8 eagles in the day. Just pathetic.

Gee, I guess Zach's decision on 13 must have been pathetic too.  Hard to believe anyone could make birdie there after laying up...   ;)
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2007, 07:04:26 PM »
Quote from: Ken Cotner on April 09, 2007, 06:38:54 PM
Quote from: Glenn Spencer on April 08, 2007, 10:37:40 PM
I believe that he is the only person to ever hit an iron off the 13th in the history of the Masters. 3 putt on 12, he must have been so mad that he felt he needed to hit an iron. You deserve to lose if you are going to hit an iron off a par 5 that gave up 8 eagles in the day. Just pathetic.

Gee, I guess Zach's decision on 13 must have been pathetic too.  Hard to believe anyone could make birdie there after laying up...   ;)

Ken,

Do you know anything about golf? Anything? Johnson could have had a bad lie, bad stance, bad club or anything else. Goosen was standing on the tee with the ball in his hand. He chose to do something that no one else has ever done in the history of the Masters. Go ahead and defend that if you want, but it has never been done before and it will never make sense.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2007, 07:05:51 PM »
Quote from: Doug Siebert on April 09, 2007, 06:16:06 PM
Glenn,

If he takes the inside line, it is surely shorter than that, as with any dogleg.

Doug,

Okay, I am with you on that. It would be a touch shorter, but doesn't that bring the creek more into play? Strange thinking for someone that is supposedly scared of the left shot. Don't you think?
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2007, 07:10:44 PM »
Quote from: Michael Christensen on April 09, 2007, 05:51:05 PM
I'm sure Mr Spencer would have ripped driver around the corner and left himself 190 in........I guess it is just that easy....as we all know by now, bending the current ball is just sooooooooo easy

I take Goosen's explanation at face value...he has no reason to lie

Who knows where I would have hit it, but I sure as hell would have hit it. Bending the ball? That is the whole point of my questioning the little girl iron shot. Blow it into the trees on top of the hill if you don't turn it enough, but at least give yourself a chance to hit the shot. He hit it 327 off of 17. A similar drive leaves him 183 into 13 or if he hits 3-wood he has 205 ish. How can one of the longest hitters in the game make this decision? Johnson is +3 in the group ahead and Woods is strolling down 11 fairway at +4 and you are calculating what is going to win the tournament?
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2007, 07:19:49 PM »
Quote from: Tim Pitner on April 09, 2007, 06:17:34 PM
Retief has an awful lot of game.  There's a reason he was part of the Big 5 (which disintegrated after Tiger found his game again).  

I was stunned when he didn't hit driver, or at least 3 wood, on #13.  I'm a fan of Goosen's so I know that he's prone to hook his driver, but still--there's a decent chance that, even if you miss the drive, you can still punch out and put yourself in position for a 4.  Obviously, he was very uncomfortable with the shot and didn't want to lose the tournament on one swing.  Playing away from his driver is not the sort of thinking that captures glory, but the man knows his game.  

He hasn't fallen in my estimation.  He calculated +2 would win the tournament (actually pretty close), played for that number and just came up a little short.  He hit a couple of putts that nearly went in and got unlucky with his tee shot on 16.  His weekend score of -5 was pretty impressive.  

Tim,

No question about anything that you said. He is enormously talented. Like you, I was shocked to see someone of his ability and accomplishment lay up off the tee. Let's face it. 13 is not the most demanding tee shot in the world. You can play it somewhat safe away from the creek and still have a chance to get home. 3-wood would have been fine, but an iron is just chicken. Like I said, it hasn't been done before for a reason. It shocks me that Goosen and his caddy cam up with this decision, especially after giving a shot away on the previous hole from 30-35 feet. Something must have gone wrong in his head, because normally it is pretty hard to take the driver or 3-wood away from someone on a par 5 after a 3 putt. Feherty was all over it.
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Chris Kurzner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2007, 07:22:08 PM »
Quote from: Tim Pitner on April 09, 2007, 06:17:34 PM
I was stunned when he didn't hit driver, or at least 3 wood, on #13.  I'm a fan of Goosen's so I know that he's prone to hook his driver, but still--there's a decent chance that, even if you miss the drive, you can still punch out and put yourself in position for a 4.

Hook your drive on 13 and you're dead.  Just ask Vijay, Ernie, or Davis Love (who all hooked drives on that hole over the years and went hunting through the azaleas).
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Scott Coan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2007, 08:26:17 PM »
Goose is clearly one of the best players on the planet and simply a few inches away from entering legendary status by winning at Shinny-04 and AGNC-07.

Shot 69-70 on the weekend to leap the field by 5 shots.

Missed a 4-footer for birdie on nine that would have resulted in and outward 31.

3-putted 12; said he hit it on the perfect line - just a bit too firm.

Missed his birdie on 13 by millimeters on the high side.  Certainly unconventional going with the hybrid on 13 tee but you cannot argue with his result.

3 very makeable putts.  Made good strokes and they did not go in.  ZJ binned them when it counted and he got the jacket but does not take anything away from Goosen's extraordinary performance.  The man has balls of steel !!!

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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2007, 08:53:51 PM »
 
Quote

Who knows where I would have hit it, but I sure as hell would have hit it. Bending the ball? That is the whole point of my questioning the little girl iron shot.  
Quote

Glenn, I don't think I'd call Goosen a "little girl" because he chose a hybrid off the tee. If there was one guy in the field other than Tiger that I would not have any questions about his manhood, it would be Retief. The man is not called the silent assasin for nothing as well as a two time US Open champ. I seriously doubt that if you were playing in the final round of the Masters you would be making better decisions in the same scenario. That hole has ended many a players chances in the past. The man still had alot of golf after that hole including a par 5 (15). You mentioned his tee shot on 15. He missed the fw. And layed up. That still gave him a chance at birdie. Miss the fw left on 13 and his task becomes a lot harder. I don't seem to remember anyone here questioning Tiger's decision to hit fairway wood off the tee on 8. And then he hits driver on 9?!? A 3 wood there would still leave him a wedge. Perhaps he didn't feel he could reach 8 in two with how he was hitting his driver? If that's the case, why can't Retief make the same strategic decision on 13?
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Glenn Spencer

Re:"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2007, 08:54:35 PM »
Quote from: Scott Coan on April 09, 2007, 08:26:17 PM
Goose is clearly one of the best players on the planet and simply a few inches away from entering legendary status by winning at Shinny-04 and AGNC-07.

Shot 69-70 on the weekend to leap the field by 5 shots.

Missed a 4-footer for birdie on nine that would have resulted in and outward 31.

3-putted 12; said he hit it on the perfect line - just a bit too firm.

Missed his birdie on 13 by millimeters on the high side.  Certainly unconventional going with the hybrid on 13 tee but you cannot argue with his result.

3 very makeable putts.  Made good strokes and they did not go in.  ZJ binned them when it counted and he got the jacket but does not take anything away from Goosen's extraordinary performance.  The man has balls of steel !!!



Can't argue with the result on 13? There were 8 eagles made there on Sunday. Tiger made one of them a couple of groups behind. If you want to win a golf tournament like the Masters, you can't court par on the 13th hole after 3-putting 12. You need to pick up momentum somewhere. Notice, he did not make another birdie. You don't win majors by playing not to lose.

Balls of Steel? The man laid up on a 510 yard par 5 while tied for the lead in the final round of the Masters with Tiger Woods a stroke behind and a few groups behind. How is that balls of steel? Did he play great on the weekend? Yes. Is he one of the best players in the world? Yes. Does he have balls of steel? Absolutely not!!!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 09:02:34 PM by Glenn Spencer »
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