[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I was having a discussion over dinner last night with a wise group about the good work and questionable work Rees has done on US Open courses. It was noted he is the current Greens Chairman at NGLA. I froze and the mind started running with the damage that could be done to one of the main architectural tutorial gems in America. I am not certain this is true but it did come from a very good source. What does the treehouse think?

[Joe Hancock]

Tiger,

Not to be a smart-aleck, but what would it matter what we think? I can only imagine another Rees-bashathon coming form this. Is Rees so inherently evil that will force NGLA to bastardize what is currently there?

Joe

[Tom_Doak]

Tiger,

Are you sure that Rees is the green chairman of National, and not just a member of the committee?  If he is, they've changed from last year, and they don't change it up that often.

I believe he has proposed some additional back tees.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, I noted my source was good, but the information is not first hand from a current member or current member of greens committee.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom, I noted my source was good, but the information is not first hand from a current member or current member of greens committee.

Tiger,

Your source is not that good.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Tiger,

I do not want to get into a pithing match with an old friend but do tell me what ghastly injury has Rees Jones  done to any course that you have PLAYED?

Yr. Obd. Svt.  

Bob

[TEPaul]

If Rees became the green chairman he would've taken over from a previous chairman who's been on the job for about three years after taking over for a green chairman who'd been on the job for many years.

Even if Rees has taken over as the green chairman I would put really good money on the fact that he will definitely not get into putting his stamp on that course.

Rees has a whole lot of respect for NGLA, and, again, I would put some serious money on the fact he would not want to tamper with the course.

This website may have contributors that will bash Rees automatically on a thread subject like this but if and when they do they will simply continue to lose credibility, in my opinion.

The philosophy of the approach to how to handle and maintain this golf course in the last decade or so has been on a really impressive track----perhaps one of the most impressive in America, and it has also been in the vein of what this website generally supports.

The only thing NGLA needs to worry about is if someone there who has some influence starts listeing to the opinions of Patrick Q. Mucci.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think Rees has a lot of respect for all the Open courses he has worked on. He is a professional in every sense of the word. I am just curious what if anything he might do if he had the power to make changes at NGLA. ie Is anything on the drawing board? This course is one of the holy spots in American golf and any changes merit discussion. If the information is bad and he merely is on the Greens committee, then that is still a position of influence. Bob, I ask you to look at his work at Torrey Pines. TE I would be more concerned about Pat as well, but not as concerned as I would be if they listened to me.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tiger

Torey Pines was a mediocre course before Rees.  I have not seen it since but from what I can tell from viewing if anything he improved it and put more of the hazardous terrain into play.

I think Mr Huntley brings up a very valid point. Where has Rees done to someone elses work what Fazio has done to Inverness, Riviera, Augusta and even the 5 greens on Winged Foot East?

edit - Baltusrol is actually pretty bad.

[TEPaul]

Geoffrey Childs, I don't know if you're a closet defender of Rees or just a very judicious man, but I like what you just said there, as I liked what you said constantly in defense of Bethpage to the carping and unsupportable criticism given the Rees project at Bethpage by Tom MacWood.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Geoffrey, I have seen it post Rees and feel it is worse for his time there. However, I was merely answering Bob. This may be a moot discussion if those of you are close to NGLA feel Rees could not or would not put his hand prints on the course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The only thing NGLA needs to worry about is if someone there who has some influence starts listeing to the opinions of Patrick Q. Mucci.

TEPaul,

Then you'll be dismayed to learn that they've already listened.

Years ago I told Joe McBride that the rear plateau on the 11th green was intended to be green, not rough, as it was when I took a tour with him.  And that it should be restored, which it was.

I told him the same thing about the right side of # 13 green, which has been restored.

In fact, it's my theory that the hole played like the 7th and 11th holes at TOC depending upon the location of the tee markers and the hole location.  A theory I intend to fortify on my next visit.

I championed the need to keep the centerline bunker complex in play at # 8, vis a vis tee lengthening.

I questioned the idea that the "punchbowl" green should be altered.

You were with George Bahto and me when I suggested that the right spine about 60-80 yards short of the 5th green be cut to fairway height so that it would turbo boost balls to the green or into the far right bunker.

And, I championed the lengthening of the 7lth tee, bringing the "Hotel" bunker complex and second shot back into play.

As to the 18th hole, lengthening the hole by bringing the tee straight back brings the critical left side bunker complex back into play.  The gates could easily be moved 50 feet or 50 yards north.

My methodology returns the critical architectural elements back into play.  It's called interfacing with the architecture.

Your methods would alter par on the scorecard, totally disregarding the golfer's ability to avoid interfacing with the architecture as intended by C.B MacDonald.

Might I suggest a restraining ankle bracelet, the type used for house arrests, that alerts the authorities and NGLA anytime you venture east of Nassau County

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoffrey, I have seen it post Rees and feel it is worse for his time there. However, I was merely answering Bob.

This may be a moot discussion if those of you are close to NGLA feel Rees could not or would not put his hand prints on the course.

Tiger,

Rees has been there for decades.

Would you point out where he's put his hand prints on the golf course ?

Then, ask yourself this question:

Why would he want to be the green chairman ?

Rees loves and respects CBM and NGLA, as much, if not more than you, me and that cretin from the greater Philadelphia area.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,

Then you'll be dismayed to learn that they've already listened.
Years ago I told Joe McBride that the rear plateau on the 11th green was intended to be green, not rough, as it was when I took a tour with him.  And that it should be restored, which it was."


Pat:

I forgot about that. Thank God they quit when they were ahead.



"As to the 18th hole, lengthening the hole by bringing the tee straight back brings the critical left side bunker complex back into play.  The gates could easily be moved 50 feet or 50 yards north.
My methodology returns the critical architectural elements back into play.  It's called interfacing with the architecture.
Your methods would alter par on the scorecard, totally disregarding the golfer's ability to avoid interfacing with the architecture as intended by C.B MacDonald."


Patrick:

"It's called interfacing with the architecture?" "INTERFACING with the architecture."

Where did you get that term---from Tim Finchem?


Well, it looks like they're buying into my methodology, not yours, since they just dropped the par on #5.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Pat, I think you have rendered this discussion moot. Thank you for your insight although Tom Doak indicated Rees had a few ideas. My source said the same thing. Oh I forgot you are a true lover of all things Rees including the much discussed Sand Pines lol cheers and Happy Monday

[TEPaul]

"Rees loves and respects CBM and NGLA, as much, if not more than you, me and that cretin from the greater Philadelphia area."

Patrick, I believe you should seriously consider profusely apologizing to Wayne Morrison for calling him that on here.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,  

I could have sworn he was talking about Mike Malone  

[TEPaul]

"Tom,  
I could have sworn he was talking about Mike Malone    

Of course---how could I have been so...so, so....whatever.

[Patrick_Mucci]

"TEPaul,

Then you'll be dismayed to learn that they've already listened.
Years ago I told Joe McBride that the rear plateau on the 11th green was intended to be green, not rough, as it was when I took a tour with him.  And that it should be restored, which it was."

Pat:

I forgot about that. Thank God they quit when they were ahead.

That's why you need your faithful guidedog Coorshaw, to identify, remind and read to you about all things pertaining to architecture.

"As to the 18th hole, lengthening the hole by bringing the tee straight back brings the critical left side bunker complex back into play.  The gates could easily be moved 50 feet or 50 yards north.

My methodology returns the critical architectural elements back into play.  It's called interfacing with the architecture.
Your methods would alter par on the scorecard, totally disregarding the golfer's ability to avoid interfacing with the architecture as intended by C.B MacDonald."

Patrick:

"It's called interfacing with the architecture?" "INTERFACING with the architecture."

That's what I said

Where did you get that term---from Tim Finchem?


No, I created that term, just as you created the terms,
"ideal maintainance meld",
"turbo boost"
"let me out of here, I'm cured",
"where, what architectural feature, I don't see anything ?" Come back Coorshaw, I promise I'll listen to Mucci, he's right !"


Well, it looks like they're buying into my methodology, not yours, since they just dropped the par on #5.  

That's not quite true.
They're experimenting with the option.  And, I don't have a problem with that on # 5.  You may have forgotten that the diagonal cross bunker presents an ideal defense against the long ball, and, while a tee could be constructed back and left of the current tee, it would alter the visuals and the angle of attack off the tee.

In addition, there aren't many architectural features to interface with off the tee until you get to the combination of the diagonal cross bunker, deep swale left and slight swale right.

In essence, little or no interfacing has been lost due to hi-tech.

But, that's not the case on # 7 and # 18 where there is a clear need to restore the CRITICAL features off the tee, back into play, back to interfacing with that golfer as CBM intended.

What ?
What's that sound ?
Oh, it's Coorshaw barking at you.
He's saying, "don't you get it ?  I've been telling you that for years ! ?

Please, listen to Coorshaw on this one.

[TEPaul]

"You may have forgotten that the diagonal cross bunker presents an ideal defense against the long ball, and, while a tee could be constructed back and left of the current tee, it would alter the visuals and the angle of attack off the tee."

No, Patrick, I have not forgotten that at all. Matter of fact, it was me that pointed that out to you and it was me who had to explain to you that that would be far better than trying to add length to that hole which would be extremely hard to do well. Adding length to that hole was your idea.

Matter of fact, I mentioned that the mid bunker out there should even have some more fairway expanded on its right to allow a long player more of that option (and dealing with that bunker).

Thankfully, NGLA seems to be taking my advice these days and not yours. And just think how much money my recommendation saved them.  

Matter of fact, president Parker Gilbert mentioned to NGLA's members that at some point in their history Shinnecock had dropped their par down on a few par 5s. One of NGLA's members immediately called me out in the field to check on the accuracy of that. I immediately called Wayne and sure enough, that was accurate.

Their next experiment should be to drop the par on #7 down to four. They have a great example to follow on that one---eg the hole that NGLA's #7 was modeled after---TOC's #17. Their yardages, by the way, are just about identical.

And then their last experiment (all this as an alternate card, in my opinion) would be to drop #18 down to a par 4 and play it from the appropriate tee for the elite player.

And then NGLA would have an alternate card of par 70 and in no time at all the perception of the challenge of the course would be greatly enhanced.

Following that, Maidstone should pick up on that technique and print up an alternate card for elite players making 15 and 16 par 4s and that course a par 70 for elite players too.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, I think you have rendered this discussion moot.

I wouldn't want false rumers to snowball into ficticious reports that would result in another Rees bashing or feeding frenzy.  You may recall that a feeding frenzy occured when Geoff Shackleford predicted the end of NGLA as we know it, when Karl Olson left, since he claimed that Rees would now take over the golf course.

I predicted that NGLA would only get better.

I'll leave it to you and others to decide who was right.

Bill Salinetti has done a marvelous job.
And Matt was a terrific help.

The golf course remains in good hands.

The last time you were there did you notice the new lightning detection and warning system ?  It's been combined with the Federal DOC house arrest ankle bracelet system.  
Anytime TEPaul crosses the Hudson River, enters Nassau & Suffolk Counties and the town of Easthampton, a series of progressively louder alarms go off
And, if he's on Sebonac Inlet Road, the gates at NGLA automatically close, tornado warning sirens go off, for sale signs on Bill Salinetti's lawn spring up, and all women, children and pets are ordered into their homes.  The man is a menace on and off the road.

Thank you for your insight although Tom Doak indicated Rees had a few ideas. My source said the same thing.

How do you, your source and/or Tom Doak KNOW that those are Rees's ideas ?

Have you ever considered that others may have suggested lengthening some tees and that Rees may agree with that ?


Oh I forgot you are a true lover of all things Rees including the much discussed Sand Pines

No, not all things.
I've been critical of things Rees has done and I've defended him when I felt he was unduely being bashed.

lol cheers and Happy Monday

Happy Birthday to you too  

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

Since you seem to think you know so much about what Rees thinks, would you happen to know what Rees thinks of GOLFCLUBATLAS.com?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick:

Since you seem to think you know so much about what Rees thinks, would you happen to know what Rees thinks of GOLFCLUBATLAS.com?

YES, I do.  

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

In that case would you mind explaining on here what it is?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

We both know the answer.

But, despite the criticism I believe that Rees has benefited from GCA.com.

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