Last week I was in Fountain Hills AZ for 5 days. An opportunity to play some of the oft mentioned in these threads courses. So, first to Vista Verde, then Apache Stronghold and finally We-Ko-Pa Saguaro. It was sunny but cool in the 50 to 60 degree range with a fair breeze each day. Herewith, my opinions on the three courses.
Architecture: Based on reputation, I figured Vista Verde would be the least of the three architecturally. But such was not the case. It had interesting strategic options on many holes. The greens were particularly well done if you like lots of movement with false edges and lots of closely mown chipping areas all around. I've not had so many recovery options from closely mown areas in a long time. The greens rejected less than good shots. Recoveries were difficult. There were short fours, long fives and a couple of very good threes.
AS has been discussed much around here and it is architecturally strong. The only mundane hole to me was the first - an unremarkable uphill par 5. The rest stick in my mind with memorable features on each hole.
WKPS struck me as having more dramatic holes than the other two, but that is a function of the site. Architecturally it is no doubt strong, but I must admit that it was not as minimalistic as I would have thought from C&C. Not that that's a bad thing. I am not a big fan of Talking Stick North, so perhaps my expectations for WKPS were not so high. In balance In my opinion, WKPS makes a much more interesting and challenging course than TSN.
There were certainly many memorable holes. But, there are four short par 4's which seems a few too many. On first playing, I didn't see the reward being worth the risk on any of them. So, 3 iron off four tees. Also another minor criticism is that the three blind drives seemed a bit excessive. Eighteen was a brute of a par 4 at 490 for me, but would be significantly easier for a long hitter able to carry the ridge and get the downhill kick. On the other hand there was a really neat short three at the ninth and two excellent and dramatic par 5's in #8 and #14.
None of the courses struck me as minimalist. Clearly they've all been imposed on the ground at each site.
Setting: For this flat land tree lined easterner the setting of each course in the desert with mountainous backdrops is magnificant. Oceans are better, but these are not bad from a setting point of view.
VV has elevation change but it is more gently sloping on any given hole. AS is similar but has some more abrupt elevation changes on some holes. It is also more directly in the hills and more isolated hole to hole. WKPS has more holes with dramatic roller-coaster rides in the course of one hole. VV and AS are easier walking courses. WKPS less so, despite the proximity of tees to greens.
Conditioning: All three play firm and fast. The overseeded rye at VV and WKPS is lush and well kept. Their greens were both slick and hard. AS's conditions have been thrashed around here, so I won't rehash that. They're certainly adequate for me, but you'll never mistake them for conditions at upscale Phoenix courses.
Cost: VV was $70 through
www.golfnow.com. AS was $55 riding; $45 walking. WKPS is $195 at all times (no twilight rate). AS wins by a nose on the value scale for now. VV will no doubt go over $100 as they get more established. WKPS at $195 is marginal for me. Once in a while maybe, but not regularly - unless I get to be an AZ resident.
Service:No significant difference. They were all pleasant. Befitting their price, We-Ko-Pa certainly has more kids hanging about the front. VV has no clubhouse, but you check in and can use the Tonto Verde clubhouse which is very nice.
In all three cases bringing a wisk broom to dust off your bag after the round might not be a bad idea.
Overall: Overall, all three courses are definitely worth playing. I can't rate one higher than the others. VV is probably not quite up to the architectural standards of the other two but had wonderful green compleses. AS has a great design and price, but the conditioning would wear on repeated playing in the winter and it's a fair ways out. WKPS is dramatic and interesting and well conditioned, but, I can't get over the price. And, the number of short 4's and blind tees. If you're in the neighbourhood, try all three. None should be missed, in my opinion.
Visual EvidenceVV greens are generally pushed up and have false front and sides and closely mown recovery areas around the greens. This from the side of the second green.
The short par 3 fourth. Some cookie cutter bunker work.
Another potato chip elevated green. These were fun trying to to hit and hold.
The par 5 sixth. Strategic options to lay up to left trap; fly right trap; or, thread a fade between them.
A bad place to miss the 8th green.
A table top green and intimidating bunker greet an approach to the 10th from the wrong side of the fairway.
At 193 yards the 11th presents a real challenge at holding a shallow firm green between imposing bunkers.
Uncharacteristic trees pinching the left side approach to the 12th; a green with a substantial false front and drop-off back.
What would a desert course be without a pond. A pretty sunset at the 18th.
To be cont'd