[rjsimper]

Having no shortage of great golf holes, obviously there will be some at Riviera that get passed over to talk about those of greater note (4, 6, 10, 18 etc...)

In my few trips to the Nissan Open, I always made a point to see the 10th and the 18th, and once I walked down to the 6th green to see what all this fuss about a bunker in the middle of the green was about.  

I came away from my recent round being perhaps most pleasantly surprised by this seemingly forgotton hole tucked into the Northwest (I think...) corner of the property.

I don't believe it's the best hole on the course, but when reading Ran's profile I was shocked that it's been completely skipped.  I felt the 5th deserves more than that, and so here I post.

At 434 yards for the pros (I don't have the card in front of me so I can't quote the yardages for mere mortals) it features an intimidating (especially if you prefer a fade) tee shot which must be played either long enough or far enough right to open up the view of the green.

The green complex itself is redan-like as it slopes severely from right to left, though I don't recall if the general slope is front to back for the length of the green...the high point of the green is the front right corner, though.  

As you can see in the photo below, a large grass mound appears to block the ideal right to left approach shot.  Michael Robin informs me that even despite the kikuyu, a long iron approach that hits short of the green between the mound and the front-right edge will play nicely, but a high-flighted short iron will stick in the hill.

What this leaves is the option to either (1) play long off the tee and take the aerial approach to any pin, knowing you must land the ball at your desired finishing point, or (2) shorter players or those who choose to lay back off the tee have the added element (or safety net) of knowing that a shot played with a longer club short and right of the green may find its way to the pin.  

I'm also told that exceptionally long players (Vijay did it) have driven the ball from the tee into the second lower fairway, leaving a flip wedge into the green.  While certainly not how the hole was intended, this seems to be another viable option.  

Why doesn't the 5th get much ink?  Is it because it's sandwiched between two world-class holes?  Or do others truly think it's just not that good?

[Walt_Cutshall]

I played that hole from the "Hogan tees" and it is a fantastic hole, IMO. It is a pretty challenging tee shot, and the approach shot features quite a bit of visual deception, IIRC. You can let your focus wane for a second or you are screwed.  

[Tom Birkert]

I thought it was a lovely hole, mainly because it suited my eye, especially off the tee. I remember being told to aim at (I think!) Tom Hanks' house, which with my stock little fade - I'm left handed - was the perfect line. There's no future in going right, thankfully the right hand side doesn't really exist as far as I'm concerned, mind you I can hit it pretty much anywhere left!

I was playing off the plates, and was left with a 7 iron in. My mate busted his tee shot and reached the lower fairway mentioned, and just had a little lob wedge in.

I actually just flew the green and had an almost impossible chip given that the green slopes so far from back to front and right to left. It was my own fault for being too aggressive with my approach.

Very challenging hole, both off the tee, the approach and the green.

I then hit it into the bunker on the 6th. Idiot!

[rjsimper]

I actually just flew the green and had an almost impossible chip given that the green slopes so far from back to front and right to left. It was my own fault for being too aggressive with my approach.

Well then that answers my question - I suppose it was only the first 1/4 or 1/3 of the green that slopes away from the front-right corner...still, a great story underlining what I suspected...that the long hitters can go for broke toward the lower fairway (A shot I'd never try given my inability to properly draw the ball on command with anything resembling reliability)

[Tom Birkert]

I should add that the pin was back right the day I played, so I really had no business trying to attack the pin.

My mate hit a hard swinging draw which must have pitched either just before the end of the upper fairway or on the banking between them.

[John Kirk]

Really fine golf hole.  I like it a lot.

It was pointed out to me that the prominent (man-made) mound short and right of the green played a much larger role in hole strategy before irrigation.  The hole used to require a long iron or fairway wood approach, and a second shot that cleared the large mound would roll down and left to the green.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Even back in Hogan's day, players were driving down the hill, however, the block right is OB and the left pull was a super difficult tree recovery.  This still holds true.  You have probably a 15 yard wide corridor to find an open approach if attempting to go over the hill.  Everything will kick hard left leaving the sycamore between your ball and the hole if your tee ball does not hit the right side of the fairway.  A ball landing between the fairway and OB will leave a very difficult ball significantly above the feet appoach.  And the green has some pretty subtle movement other than the significant right to left slope.  This green is terribly difficult to read.  

[Michael Robin]

Ryan - Agree that this hole is underrated. As we talked about the other day, it use to be very highly rated. It was the #1 handicap hole for many years.

Before the LAAC got nervous about potential lawsuits from people tripping, you used to walk off the 4th green and go straight down a steep enbankment to arrive at the back lower 5th tee. It was about 20 yards behind and maybe 10 ft. down from its current position. I think it played something like 451 from the back and 430ish from the white, which is about where today's blue tee resides. Ted Robinson was hired to redo several tees prior to the '83 PGA. They filled in the whole cul de sac and knocked down the hill where the top tee was and built this massive tee complex that shortened the hole, and elevated the bottom tee by about 30 ft. No more tripping problems, but the hole was emasculated as everyone could now clear the perfectly designed rise in the fairway that used to govern distance as your drive flew into it. If you ripped it you would be at the top of the rise with a 2 iron in hand and the previously mentioned greenside Redan-like feature behind Thomas' wonderfully natural hill would be your friend if you cleared said hill or an evil foe if you didn't.

The current management tried to restore the upper and lower tees, but I think they didn't go back or get low enough to recapture the hole's previous glory. The rise in the fairway is just a sentinal of what was, with the original strategic elements still in place, just rendered useless with technology and a not quite on the restoration effort. If any of you get out there to play, drop a ball on the rise and pull out your 205 club and look at the hugely imaginative options and unlock its previous glory. Thomas' brilliance will astound you.

Here are some pics from the current tees that give a sense of the rise:

Lower tee


Upper tee


It used to be said by the pros that if you could survive 2-5 at Riv you had a chance for a good score, cause you probably were going to make a 6 somewhere in that group. Now 5 is looked at as a birdie hole and its secrets lie dormant. But as you finish the hole you are left with a feeling that there's something special about it that you can't quite place, which leaves you thinking that maybe its underrated, where actually its just waiting to be rediscovered.

[rjsimper]

Thanks for posting those, Michael -

Seems that the further back and down you go, the better the hole would get.  Certainly the upper tee negates a good deal of the intimidation of that shot (In fact, I didn't even realize that tee was there)

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